Atos are still doing (re)assessments despite what Gov and Press say..

[Libertad]

again i don;t think you quite understand why the appeals are so successful , the presumoption that health professionals are sympathetic and will deliver a subjective report rather than empathetic and objective seems to drive the subtext that many 'activists' are pushing

the Politically motivated part of the debate , where andwhen it happens doesn;t come from government it comes from the activistis and their projection

Pissed again?

 

[editor]

*grudgingly dons mods hat*

Can people be a little bit less sweary please?

 

[zippyRN]

*grudgingly dons mods hat*

Can people be a little bit less sweary please?

what and resist the opportunity to prove once again where the truely 'nasty' people lay on the political spectrum ... even if the reason they object to the person isn't necessarily party politics but rebuttal of inaccuracies and challengeing dogma/ fallacies

 

[DotCommunist]

you've rebutted nothing and your thinly vieled badly written disgust is absolutely the MO for right wing moaners. Tell us all how activists cause all the people to win their appeals?

 

[Celyn]

what a resist the opportunity to prove once again where the truely 'nasty' people lay on the political spectrum ... even if the reason they object tothe person isn't necessarily party politics but rebuttal of inaccuracies and challengeing dogma/ fallacies

Fine. Now, could you try expressing it again but in English this time?

 

[StoneRoad]

*grudgingly dons mods hat*

Can people be a little bit less sweary please?

Just the response of people to one user posting on support threads

 

[zippyRN]

. Tell us all how activists cause all the people to win their appeals?

because people will not listen to the advice that is given freely and without malice by those who maintain a degree of dtatchment from tryingto turn everything into yet another class war ...

it ikes them being knocked back for providing insufficient evidence and /or ofcusing on diagnosis before they will listen. It's odd how some groups / populations have very high first tiem success rates ... or maybe it's becasue these people are enouraged and empowered by those around them rather than pited and used as party political pawns

 

[DotCommunist]

now you are entering into fantasy land bollocks and obsessing about 'party politics'. Always the same with you, a blind unfocused rage that impairs your critical faculties because the lefties. Really, if you have nothing useful to say then you should remove yourself from this thread and start a new one. You can't answer the appeal results with anything other than 'the left the left, activists' so please, leave the thread to people who want to help rather than denigrate. Genuine ask- start your own thread and take the issue there (the issue in your fevered imagination). You've clearly nothig to add here save sneers and smears so why not do as many have asked you and jog on?

 

[existentialist]

because people will not listen to the advice that is given freely and without malice by those who maintain a degree of dtatchment from tryingto turn everything into yet another class war ...

it ikes them being knocked back for providing insufficient evidence and /or ofcusing on diagnosis before they will listen. It's odd how some groups / populations have very high first tiem success rates ... or maybe it's becasue these people are enouraged and empowered by those around them rather than pited and used as party political pawns

Ahahahahaha.

 

[Libertad]

because people will not listen to the advice that is given freely and without malice by those who maintain a degree of dtatchment from tryingto turn everything into yet another class war ...

it ikes them being knocked back for providing insufficient evidence and /or ofcusing on diagnosis before they will listen. It's odd how some groups / populations have very high first tiem success rates ... or maybe it's becasue these people are enouraged and empowered by those around them rather than pited and used as party political pawns

Pissed again?

 

[existentialist]

Pissed again?

And starting the same performance on another support thread: Recording your jobsearch when on Universal Credit

 

[friendofdorothy]

because people will not listen to the advice that is given freely and without malice by those who maintain a degree of dtatchment from tryingto turn everything into yet another class war ...

With the level of ignorance over preparation for practice of health professionals do peopel wonder why so few bother to engage in discussion ?

comparatively few of the paramedics in current clinical practice as solely ' blue book ' 6 +6 weekers ...

as forthe objection / suprise at a physio doing the assessments i think that says more aobut the commentorsd lack of knowledge than the suitability of Physios and OTs to be doign the assessments , arguably physios have a better baseline knowledge of assessment and examination than Nurses as they are expected to demonstrate competencies in a more rigourously assessed way pre -reg ... ( a physio who cannot auscultate would not pass their respiratory / cardio modules ... where as many (civvie) nurses don't get the opportunity to learn this important skill properly unless they set out to specifically learn it )

Apart from the fact that your reply to worried a new poster, is in such badly typed jargon its largely meaningless - how is this answer in any way 'advice'?- you try to clarify in a later post (also badly typed and full of jargon) that paramedics have the sort of training that in your opinion makes them well qualified to be Atos assessors. As I said before:

You could have enlightened everyone on this thread. Instead you chose to call us ignorant.

it ikes them being knocked back for providing insufficient evidence and /or ofcusing on diagnosis before they will listen. It's odd how some groups / populations have very high first tiem success rates ...

Which 'groups' or 'populations' have a high first time sucess rate? do you have some info on this? I'd love to hear it.

or maybe it's becasue these people are enouraged and empowered by those around them rather than pited and used as party political pawns

As members of urban we have between us the experience and knowledge to encourage and empower others. Why don't you help? if you can please do.

I'm not a member of any political party - I've not even heard any MPs of any leaning talking about this, about from those who talk about ill people as if they are all malingering. Do you Mr Zippy see us all as pawns for your own party political scorn? if so please just zip it.

(see editor - no swearing )

 

[Shampoo Dave]

Now going through the ATOS assessment. Very sad indeed. Been on DLA for many years after horrendous cancer journey and major operation. The young Occupational Therapist visited my home for an assessment/fact finding mission and I later discover the assessment was abandoned because they felt concerned for their personal safety ? Ha. Now had 6 different letters of further appointments being chopped and changed with days, times and even the town . Now have to have another assessment at their venue instead of my home. The process is a very sad journey for genuine disabled people and the application form and tactics being used are obviously designed to invalidate any claim, regardless . I,ll update more later as I also will probably have to attend a medical too at some point.

 

[friendofdorothy]

Welcome to urban Shampoo Dave. Sorry you've suffered such horrendous ill health.

Was the occupational therapist visiting you at home in order to reassess your DLA claim? Or was this for treatment?

Have you got anyone who can help you go to the assessment centre? Beware, what Atos/maximus/shite private comanies do is not a 'medical', though I think they may call it a 'medical assessment' it is only an assessment for your claim to benefits.

 

[Shampoo Dave]

Welcome to urban Shampoo Dave. Sorry you've suffered such horrendous ill health.

Was the occupational therapist visiting you at home in order to reassess your DLA claim? Or was this for treatment?

Have you got anyone who can help you go to the assessment centre? Beware, what Atos/maximus/shite private comanies do is not a 'medical', though I think they may call it a 'medical assessment' it is only an assessment for your claim to benefits.

it was an assessment for the PIP benefit. A job I suppose someone has to do but no need to use under-hand tactics to try and disqualify a claim and treat even genuine claimants with contempt.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

report that claimants with mental health problems are being asked "why haven't you killed yourself yet?"

more here

can't think of a lot to say other than

 

[friendofdorothy]

report that claimants with mental health problems are being asked "why haven't you killed yourself yet?"

more here

can't think of a lot to say other than

View attachment 101435

They asked my girlfriend what has stopped her killing herself. Not an easy question to hear, not very tackful - especially as this is not in a supportive theraputic enviroment and is from a person who doesn't give a fuck if you live or die. Reduced me to tears.

 

[existentialist]

They asked my girlfriend what has stopped her killing herself. Not an easy question to hear, not very tackful - especially as this is not in a supportive theraputic enviroment and is from a person who doesn't give a fuck if you live or die. Reduced me to tears.

I DO operate a supportive therapeutic environment, and if I felt the need to ask that question, I'd be asking "What got you through?". It's an utterly inappropriate question to be asking in this context, though.

 

[friendofdorothy]

I DO operate a supportive therapeutic environment, and if I felt the need to ask that question, I'd be asking "What got you through?". It's an utterly inappropriate question to be asking in this context, though.

sorry I don't know about you or your work - are you saying that you work for Atos and 'operate a supportive therapeutic environment'?

Or that you are therapist asking 'what got you through' in the context of a therapy session?

 

[existentialist]

sorry I don't know about you or your work - are you saying that you work for Atos and 'operate a supportive therapeutic environment'?

Or that you are therapist asking 'what got you through' in the context of a therapy session?

Fuck no, I don't work for ATOS! In all seriousness, I'd get flung out of my professional body for bringing the profession into disrepute if I took an ATOS assessor job...

No, what I mean, and probably didn't put very clearly, is that it can be necessary to talk through with a client how they've managed in previous suicidal episodes. So, even though it would already be a supportive therapeutic environment, I'm not going to say "how come you didn't off yourself - lost your bottle, DIDYA?", but find a more positive way in which to frame the enquiry.

Not that I think that untrained, unqualified people should even be going there anyway, but it would be a thousand times better if the ATOSser was framing it more positively.

 

[pengaleng]

yeah in a normal environment it aint a wrong thing, but when the people working for the government to cut off your money it's a whole different thing when yer aware of the fact that they DO actually want you to die cus it saves money - they couldnt give a fuck abpout anything other than their targets and this line of questioning shows their hand.

i got asked by me therapist and answered, if it was atos I woulda screwfaced and went you what???

 

[friendofdorothy]

Not that I think that untrained, unqualified people should even be going there anyway, but it would be a thousand times better if the ATOSser was framing it more positively.

how you handle the issue of suicide as part of a theraputive process is quite a separate subject. that's private, confidential and hopefully the theraputic process will enable an ill person to move on, away from death and focus on living maybe. Least I hope so.

However I cannot see how such an intrusive insensitive enquiry, regarding what stops a person from killing themselves from a 'health professional' in a benefits related assessment, could ever be framed in a 'positive' way.

It's certainly not a question a want put to my nearest and dearest by a physiotherapist in my presence. When the assessor asked about suicide (and I can't recall the exact wording ) I asked my girlfriend if she wanted me to leave the the room - it was such a personal question, I felt like I was intruding. How could my partner answer that that sort of private question with me/anyone else there? We hadn't discussed this subject beforehand, its hard enough supporting a partner with mental health issues without discussing death, so I had no idea what she was thinking. She did answer that question and it reduced both of us to tears.

One of the things I pointed out in the assessment was although there had been a diagnosis there had been very little treatment offered, and finally, no help or support at all. This Atos assessment wasn't a therapy session, there wasn't any support or back up after this. Even the BBC does a 'If you were affected by any of the issues in this programme call our helpline on ______' Atos = NO support. Nothing. Just a long wait while you wonder if all you money will be withdrawn.

What sort of govt administration process is that? I was disgusted at the whole process.

 

[One dog]

With the level of ignorance over preparation for practice of health professionals do peopel wonder why so few bother to engage in discussion ?

comparatively few of the paramedics in current clinical practice as solely ' blue book ' 6 +6 weekers ...

as forthe objection / suprise at a physio doing the assessments i think that says more aobut the commentorsd lack of knowledge than the suitability of Physios and OTs to be doign the assessments , arguably physios have a better baseline knowledge of assessment and examination than Nurses as they are expected to demonstrate competencies in a more rigourously assessed way pre -reg ... ( a physio who cannot auscultate would not pass their respiratory / cardio modules ... where as many (civvie) nurses don't get the opportunity to learn this important skill properly unless they set out to specifically learn it )

What physios know about mental health could be written on the back of a postage stamp. I know this. My cousin qualified 2 years ago and she is so disgusted with the poor quality of education on her physio' degree that she is now going to study for a different profession.

Edit: she has been accepted to study medicine.

 

[One dog]

There are no hoops to jump through - this is a view expressed by those who are either ignorant or ideologically bound against the system, Contrary to the widely held belief of the paranoid left no one in government or the civil service wants to do things for the fun of it or as a job creation scheme ( the irony is most of the job creation in the public sector is at the behest of the unions), it is a symptom of the fundamental immaturity of many 'activists' that they are unwilling to understand their impact on others or simple things like the duty of organisations to prove they are spending taxpayers money in an effective way.

I take it the RN in Zippy RN, stands for registered nurse, unless I am wrong.

In any case, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about ZippyRN.

I doubt you have ever attended a WCA or ever met anyone who has, unless of course, you are one of the nurses doing the assessments.

 

[One dog]

what a presumptuous bunch of libel ...

rather than those who when throuwn life rings, ropes, life jackets etc moan whinge and comlain it took too long or the boat that eventually had to be launched was the wrogn shade of orange... but then again personal responsibility and the left is never an easy fit ...

Are you suggesting that people who become too ill to continue to work should take personal responsibility?

If you are not saying that then what are you saying. You don't provide a very articulate account of your opinions.

 

[One dog]

what and resist the opportunity to prove once again where the truely 'nasty' people lay on the political spectrum ... even if the reason they object to the person isn't necessarily party politics but rebuttal of inaccuracies and challengeing dogma/ fallacies

You are not challenging dogma or fallacies - you are a proponent of them.

 

[One dog]

it was an assessment for the PIP benefit. A job I suppose someone has to do but no need to use under-hand tactics to try and disqualify a claim and treat even genuine claimants with contempt.

This is a good source of help for people with PIP and WCA issues:-

Welfare Central Forum - Index

 

[friendofdorothy]

I see 38 Dgrees are doing a campaign about private companies acting illegally again. I've signed their petition.

Dear friends,

I just signed the petition "Stop making people travel unfair distances for disability assessments" and wanted to ask if you could add your name too.

This campaign means a lot to me and the more support we can get behind it, the better chance we have of succeeding. You can read more and sign the petition here:

Stop making people travel unfair distances for disability assessments | Campaigns by You

Can you also take a moment to share the petition with others? It's really easy – all you need to do is forward this email or click these links:

Share on Facebook

Share on Twitter

Thank you!

 

[Paul007]

All this talk of ATOS not doing reassessments because of this or that reason are driving me insane. I was awarded ESA May 2013 after being moved from IB and was placed in support group.

I was originally told I wouldn't be reassessed for at least 12 months so imagine my surprise to get another form to fill in in mid Jan this year. I didn't do it right away so they sent me a reminder that it was due before 13th Feb, which it was, just. So imagine how thrilled, like everyone else, I was to hear all the news that they were losing their contract because they are 'unfit for purpose' etc and no-one on the benefit already would be reassessed if they sent forms back after 20th Jan.

It's all bollocks. I got a letter from Atos at start of August calling me in to be reassessed 1st Sept.(I went today but no doctor to see me so it has been put back until 17th)

Believing all the stories that had circulated I phoned them - Atos, the DWP, Welfare Rights and the TUC only to be told by all of them that I would have to go and that Atos were continuing with their contract until Aug 2015.

How can this be right/just/fair? There has been no change of circumstances. I'm not a new claimant. I'm not waiting to be moved from IB and my form was sent after the supposed Jan 20th deadline.

I wish I could just get some straight answers from someone

I know this is an old post but I was awarded ESA in Jan then I got a form again to fill in April that same year, its a joke the DWP are doing reassessments ever year until you fail and they fail you even thought your unfit for work its a proper joke. Just read someone in a wheelchair and cldnt walk was found fit for work against there doctors advice

 

[friendofdorothy]

I know this is an old post but I was awarded ESA in Jan then I got a form again to fill in April that same year, its a joke the DWP are doing reassessments ever year until you fail and they fail you even thought your unfit for work its a proper joke. Just read someone in a wheelchair and cldnt walk was found fit for work against there doctors advice

That is so shit - are they allowed to do this so soon?

Welcome to Urban Paul007 I found these threads very helpful a few years back when I was helping someone ill their with Atos assessment. I'm not very knowledgable about these processes myself, but hopefully someone will be along soon who will know