Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
kyser_soze said:
ah, apologies to you squire.
Atheist morals vs. believer morals
- Thread starter drews
- Start date
ah, apologies to you squire.
If I was a believer in the after-life where all the wrongs of the world get put right, I would not bother with contributing to charity. As it is I think that this life is the only chance you get so when I see a need I sometimes put my hand in my pocket.
If we are to believe it, Jesus himself (assuming he really existed in the way and at the time depicted) said that 'the poor would always be with us' and allowed someone to anoint his feet with expensive oil rather spending the money on the poor. That is not a good example of a charitable attitude.
Of all the people I know I can't tell which ones are religious or not by their behaviour to each other or attitude to charity. Why anyone would equate per annum spending on charity with morality is baffling to me. I suppose charity-giving related to feelings of guilt might be a factor, and Catholics in particular might make up the numbers of the guilty feeling ones.
It does occur to me that among the self-professed (and in denial) religious types on these board is a higher proportion of trolls than you would expect from a random cross-section of posters.
If we are to believe it, Jesus himself (assuming he really existed in the way and at the time depicted) said that 'the poor would always be with us' and allowed someone to anoint his feet with expensive oil rather spending the money on the poor. That is not a good example of a charitable attitude.
Of all the people I know I can't tell which ones are religious or not by their behaviour to each other or attitude to charity. Why anyone would equate per annum spending on charity with morality is baffling to me. I suppose charity-giving related to feelings of guilt might be a factor, and Catholics in particular might make up the numbers of the guilty feeling ones.
It does occur to me that among the self-professed (and in denial) religious types on these board is a higher proportion of trolls than you would expect from a random cross-section of posters.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Who are the in denials! Rational minds want to know 
stdPikachu
Plughole in bathtub curve
Barking_Mad said:
Well, in my case pretty much the same as Crispy's summary. Although I like to distill it further into "don't be a twat". Works for me, and it's alot simpler to remember than a great many religious texts
King Biscuit Time
Well-Known Member
Be excellent to each other, and party on.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Do what seems right at the time. Have a context-sensitive morality.
kyser_soze said:Who are the in denials! Rational minds want to know
The OP Drews. He is a believer pretending to be an atheist so as to caricature atheists. Sadly for Drews we don't fit any stereotype or have any common belief system or particular set of morals.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
kyser_soze said:
Yep, difference between a 'proper answer' and one the poster wants to hear
It's a bit of a meaningless question, though, isn't it - like asking 'what do people who aren't buddhists believe?'. Give us an answer to that and we'll perhaps have more of an answer to yours.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Ahh yeah, of course.
I was thinking was there anyone else. We could have a theist hunt. Then do something to them that makes them unsuitable to meet their God.
I was thinking was there anyone else. We could have a theist hunt. Then do something to them that makes them unsuitable to meet their God.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
two sheds said:Yep, difference between a 'proper answer' and one the poster wants to hear
It's a bit of a meaningless question, though, isn't it - like asking 'what do people who aren't buddhists believe?'. Give us an answer to that and we'll perhaps have more of an answer to yours.
Why are you having a go at BM? he's not trying to make anyone fishers of men you know...it was just a reasonable question...
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
kyser_soze said:
Not really intended to 'have a go' - just pointing it out. He did say earlier 'athiests seem to spend a lot of time saying what they dont believe in, but not a lot of time in what they do. This confuses me as surely instead of bashing religion, they'd be better off putting time into alternative ideas and thoughts....'
a wee bit confrontational - but I'm still interested in hearing what non-Buddhists believe in
The OP seems to have disappeared off somewhere don't he?
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Dunno, I've got the nihillistic little theist on ignore.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Which post #?
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
I started out by thinking 'he's not fishing for anything' and thought I'd switch it round to the Christ quote, 'I will make you fishers of men' - meaning he was going to show them how to proselytise and convert people; to 'fish' for converts, hence make them 'fishers of men'
One of the snappier quotes from the Bible; there's even a hymn written around it...
One of the snappier quotes from the Bible; there's even a hymn written around it...
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
two sheds said:Not really intended to 'have a go' - just pointing it out. He did say earlier 'athiests seem to spend a lot of time saying what they dont believe in, but not a lot of time in what they do. This confuses me as surely instead of bashing religion, they'd be better off putting time into alternative ideas and thoughts....'
a wee bit confrontational - but I'm still interested in hearing what non-Buddhists believe in
People dont say in a conversation, "Im a non-Buddhist" but people do say, "Im an athiest" which although is of course perfectly acceptable it doesn't to me tell me anything about the persons beliefs (and I use the word beliefin the broad sense of the word, not the religious one). I was just curious as to athiests views on life were.......
Oh and if the religious types are fair game for confrontation then athiests are too........
Not that I intended to be so, maybe you're a bit unsure? Yes, I fell into the arms of Jesus, but im back now.....Ermm actually I just forgot about the thread.
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
Deareg said:
You are entering oxymoron land with that one! However, I think i get the cut of your gib.
stdPikachu
Plughole in bathtub curve
Barking_Mad said:
But surely, saying "I'm Buddhist" or "I'm a Christian" doesn't tell you much about a persons belief structure either, other than confirming that they believe in a particular subset of religion? AFAICT it doesn't really tell you anything in the broader sense of the word...?
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
Barking_Mad said:
'I'm not a buddhist' seems a fair statement to me in a conversation, particularly if you're replying to a buddhist who for example says 'I believe in reincarnation'. So, my question remains - 'What do non-buddhists believe?' Come on, now stop weaseling around, you castigated people for not answering your question, why won't you answer mine?
Oh and if the religious types are fair game for confrontation then athiests are too........
Unsure of what?
Yes, I fell into the arms of Jesus, but im back now.....Ermm actually I just forgot about the thread.
Ahhhhh so YOU're drews are you - now it all starts to make sense.
My question is where is drews. He's made a bald statement that xtians give more to more charity than atheists with no proof. Does he accept that giving to xtian charities doesn't count as charity when the real aim is to convert recipients to xtianity, for example, he's not replied to that. That in itself would suggest xtians give less to charity than do atheists.
See, he looks like an xtian who is just lying about being an atheist to make some strange xtian point. If he is, then 'Thou shalt not bear false witness' would seem relevant. There's a lot of xtians who go round imposing their ideas of what we should be doing on us when they don't even do what they are told to do in the bible (we don't believe in it, you're supposed to). Another example ... 'go, sell all you have and give it to the poor'. Have you done that? If so, why not - why does that bit of your Master's teachings not apply to you?
gorski
customised free radical
There are some of us who are agnostics.
Now, for my money, only "we", as opposed to both theists and atheists [claiming something unprovable], can say we do not believe in anything...
Theism and Atheism are two sides of the same coin, whether going into areas which are a question of a load of tosh or disproving it but claiming the ground which is equally impossible to prove.
Agnostics, however, can and do say "Sure, ladies and gentlemen, believe what you like in your own, personal or even intimate space and time, but can we, please, go back to the really important and solvable questions of how we live, our world, the little or bigger Gods and believers on Earth..."
Then, we can talk about Humanist morality and Catholic or Muslim one etc. etc.
Non?
Now, for my money, only "we", as opposed to both theists and atheists [claiming something unprovable], can say we do not believe in anything...
Theism and Atheism are two sides of the same coin, whether going into areas which are a question of a load of tosh or disproving it but claiming the ground which is equally impossible to prove.
Agnostics, however, can and do say "Sure, ladies and gentlemen, believe what you like in your own, personal or even intimate space and time, but can we, please, go back to the really important and solvable questions of how we live, our world, the little or bigger Gods and believers on Earth..."
Then, we can talk about Humanist morality and Catholic or Muslim one etc. etc.
Non?
subversplat
writer of wrongs
Err, are you outing drews as your athiest sockpuppet? That's a bit risky!Barking_Mad said:Yes, I fell into the arms of Jesus, but im back now.....Ermm actually I just forgot about the thread.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
gorski said:There are some of us who are agnostics.
Now, for my money, only "we", as opposed to both theists and atheists [claiming something unprovable], can say we do not believe in anything...
Theism and Atheism are two sides of the same coin, whether going into areas which are a question of a load of tosh or disproving it but claiming the ground which is equally impossible to prove.
Agnostics, however, can and do say "Sure, ladies and gentlemen, believe what you like in your own, personal or even intimate space and time, but can we, please, go back to the really important and solvable questions of how we live, our world, the little or bigger Gods and believers on Earth..."
Then, we can talk about Humanist morality and Catholic or Muslim one etc. etc.
Non?
Yep, I'd broadly agree with that - apart from us being able to say 'I don't believe in anything'. I do believe things - I believe (by and large) the scientific view of the universe. I also believe that I don't know whether there's a god or not. An atheist can say 'i don't believe in god and i don't believe in anything', As an agnostic I can't say that.
I think agnosticism is the scientific approach myself - there are several hypotheses but non of them has been proved yet. If new scientific evidence comes in (for example if they do see a grumpy little white bearded old man on a planet on his own somewhere still visiting innocent Egyptians with plagues of boils and frogs) I'm quite prepared to alter my position.
