At what point, if any, should you sell out for money?

Discussion in 'education & employment' started by ice-is-forming, Jun 3, 2018.

  1. ice-is-forming

    ice-is-forming Well-Known Member

    At what point, if any, should you sell out for money? I know this is urban so hopefully never.. but urban has thrown up some surprises in the past. is there a way to re-frame as earned? or what? I could sell out right now but I'm in the middle of something i really value right now. So i've been thinking about how it goes down if/when you do..
  2. pseudonarcissus

    pseudonarcissus fluttering and dancing

    How much are you offering? £100k and I’ll do anything, it would tide me over to retirement.
  3. yardbird

    yardbird Understands love.

    You sell out when things sway in your favour.

    Ax^ and ice-is-forming like this.
  4. yardbird

    yardbird Understands love.

    If you feel that urban would have a problem then consider it to be re-distribution of wealth.
    A worthy thing.
    ice-is-forming likes this.
  5. editor

    editor Forked with electrons

    I've turned down shitloads of money because I'm lumbered with my own personal set of beliefs, but have found that I'm often been rewarded in different ways in the long term.

    That said, I've no problem with people 'selling out' if that's what it takes for them to survive/feed their kids/whatever. I only have a problem when the people try to dishonestly spin it or go all Tory....
    telbert, Shirl, A380 and 9 others like this.
  6. toblerone3

    toblerone3 Grrrrr

    Given that there is a value judgement in there about a 'personal set of beliefs' would you ever/often say "he/she sold" out ? Do you sometimes think it but not say it?
  7. toblerone3

    toblerone3 Grrrrr

    I think the phrase "selling out" also has a implication that there is such a thing as set of unchanging absolute or personal beliefs and there is no such a thing as a changing/developing belief system.
    ice-is-forming likes this.
  8. toblerone3

    toblerone3 Grrrrr

    can you be more specific?
  9. farmerbarleymow

    farmerbarleymow Seagull + Chips = Happy Seagull

    About fifty quid. :hmm:
    Shirl, A380 and Saul Goodman like this.
  10. fizzerbird

    fizzerbird Always there when I need me...

    farmerbarleymow likes this.
  11. bellaozzydog

    bellaozzydog rolling turds in glitter

    What ever the figure it's rarely enough once you get it. See every lottery winner ever.

    What are you selling out to? Is there a formulae? The harder the kick in your ethics the higher the figure you should sell out for?

    Can you be bought out of your own moral stance for cash.

    Does the dubious anecdote attributed to Churchill apply, "we've established what you are we are now in negotiation"

    Ultimately we need to know what you are selling before we can pile in with judgemental, virtue signalling bullshit advice we'd not stick to IRL if some one offered us a disgustingly small amount of money
    kebabking, A380 and ice-is-forming like this.
  12. sparkybird

    sparkybird ask the bird...

    Interesting article in this week's Economist about effective altruism. The gist being you're better off taking the highest paid job you can and donating money. For example the total cost of saving a child's life through deworming, malaria protection or vitamin supplements is estimated at $1-2,000. It says think how many child's lives you could save or improve over a lifetime compared with say a doctor, nurse or charity worker.
    I personally don't think it's quite so clear cut, but interesting nonetheless
    ice-is-forming likes this.
  13. ice-is-forming

    ice-is-forming Well-Known Member

    I currently have a job that 100% fits my values, with an org that fits my values, doing work that fits my values...however the contract is deemed to end at the end of this year... by hanging in there i may be able to change this decision and extend the contract. However i've been offered a longer contract with more pay for a job that is inevitable-someone will be doing it- The new job will be managed by my just about to leave boss. Do I like working for him or the org :confused: I guess I'll find ut....

    its no decision for me really, so far 3 out of 5 colleagues who i work with on this program have jumped ship to the new offer...the 4th person has given it less than a month before they decide. I can not find it within myself to sellout, although i do recognise i will be able to support and assist people in the new position i do not agree, politically, with the new system that the new job would be within.
    toblerone3 likes this.
  14. ice-is-forming

    ice-is-forming Well-Known Member

    nice, i'll check it out, thank you :) its a little more than saving a childs front line.. but interesting all the same and it may put into perspective for me :)
  15. Red Cat

    Red Cat Well-Known Member

    It doesn't sound to me like a question of selling out, more that you have a contract running out, therefore a finite amount of money that you can count on. If your contract was longer in your current org, you wouldn't hesitate to stay would you? Would you be able to negotiate that now?
    ice-is-forming likes this.
  16. TruXta

    TruXta tired

    Nothing personal, but EA is dangerous bunkum peddled by people who think suffering and happiness does not exist if it can't be translated into numbers.
    mango5, Badgers, peterkro and 3 others like this.
  17. DotCommunist

    DotCommunist slowtime

    Not entirely sure I like the smell of 'effective altruism'. It comes off as bean counting, cold victorian rationalist view of the world. The horrible non political utilitarianism of the rational man with his individual will and his logical way to treat symptoms. But not causes. What happened to just being excellent to each other? Was bill and ted a lie?
  18. ice-is-forming

    ice-is-forming Well-Known Member

    it's a very tricky space right now, believe me that I may be able to influence the end of contract work for the work i value...but its not a given. I've figured that you need balls of steel to remain...which is why my colleagues have jumped ship... But i just.can'

    DotCommunist Bill and ted ftw!
  19. toblerone3

    toblerone3 Grrrrr

    ice-is-forming you say its inevitable that if you turn down the new job someone else will be doing it. If you accepted the new job, would it also be inevitable that someone would fill the potential contract in your existing organisation that you have forgone. Its shades of grey. "selling out" is probably not an appropriate phrase in this situation.

    On the purely individual level ignoring somewhat the wider politics, would the extra money bring extra happiness/benefit to yourself. There is evidence that the benefit/income graph is not a straight line and above a certain level each extra unit of income brings diminishing returns.

    Review: Happiness and Making Happy People

    The Price of Inequality by Joseph Stiglitz – review
    ice-is-forming likes this.
  20. mauvais

    mauvais change has become unavoidable

    Some vague tidbits of advice:

    - working on what you feel to be the right thing in the right place has significant ongoing value (to your mental health, wellbeing etc) that's comparable with some degree of payrise and the economic freedoms it may bring, aka 'why I won't go work for Barclays'

    - the above is unhelpful if the lower pay is causing you fundamental problems

    - organisational situations are rarely as simple as they appear from the outside, for better and worse, especially in terms of opportunities

    - the ethics of doing a particular job in a particular place are rarely as simple as they appear either. For example I found myself working somewhere that morphed into part of an arms company. However I only ever did unrelated commercial work, and most of that was never commercially successful either, so really I just cost some bastards a lot of money :D Ditto the high level, e.g. car manufacturers' products kill several orders of magnitude more people than plenty of weapons manufacturers', not that I would encourage you to sign up for the latter

    - none of this counts for anything if there is no choice in the first place due to some externality - in your case if the contract ends and can't be saved, then you haven't sold out, so what difference if you correctly guess this in advance?
  21. ice-is-forming

    ice-is-forming Well-Known Member

    nah.. my programe is completing/ending at the end of 2018 and the $ going into the new program. Although it doesnt consider equity... it would make not a lot of difference $ wise, maybe $400 extra a week but i have enough already. Thank you so much for the links, reading them now :)
  22. ice-is-forming

    ice-is-forming Well-Known Member

    Thank you :) the difference is that I may be able to influence a new contract if i stay.. but maybe i wont. I have to sit with uncertainty.. but uncertainty versus selling out is really a non decision for me :)
  23. Geri

    Geri wasn't born to follow

    I think I would draw the line at taking a job that involves the hiring and firing of people.

    If I was famous though I would definitely milk it to get as much money as possible, e.g. adverts, but only for things I actually use or support.

    I constantly get told by a friend that as a 'lefty' I shouldn't go to Wetherspoons.
    LynnDoyleCooper likes this.
  24. Looby

    Looby Well-Known Member

    I think me and Mr Looby have fucked ourselves over financially by refusing to work in certain industries. His degree was geology and he’s clever but he was never willing to go and work for Shell or similar. The job he currently does is paid ok but he could be earning double probably in the private sector because it’s better paid and there’s more opportunity for promotion.

    I started off working in finance and hated it. I liked numbers but hated the corporate bullshit and making money for people I loathed. I very nearly left the civil service and took a job working for a big firm in Jersey but just couldn’t do it. I’d probably be earning really good money now if I had but I really would have been completely selling out and I’m not sure I could live with that.

    I’m a badly paid support worker now, and next year I’ll be a slightly better paid professional but I’m very happy with my choices so I guess I’ll have to get used to the skintness.

    But we don’t own a house and we have no savings and life feels very uncertain in a lot of ways. Maybe I’m a fool.
  25. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    Long before I graduated I decided I would not work in defence.
    I didn't want to be writing brochures for products that claimed higher kill/maim ratios etc.
  26. editor

    editor Forked with electrons

    Depends on the specific circumstances.
    Badgers likes this.
  27. Saul Goodman

    Saul Goodman It's all good, man

    How sick will you be when your contract ends and all the people you like working with have moved on to the new job?
  28. farmerbarleymow

    farmerbarleymow Seagull + Chips = Happy Seagull

    I'm just being realistic about my inherent value. :thumbs:
    Saul Goodman and Badgers like this.
  29. beesonthewhatnow

    beesonthewhatnow going deaf for a living

    I’d do most stuff for a pint tbh :hmm: :oops: :D
    farmerbarleymow and A380 like this.
  30. sparkybird

    sparkybird ask the bird...

    Absolutely. I was just quoting something which I'd never heard/thought about before, it's not my opinion, so not taken personally
    The article did go on to say that others might prefer to have more meaningful contact with thist they help eg volunteer at homeless shelter etc.

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