At last the Union bosses take on New Labour, or do they?

[brasicritique]

At last the Union bosses take on New Labour, or do they?

no they do not take on nushamebore if they did they would withdraw funding its all about the knighthoods

 

[The Black Hand]

At last the Union bosses take on New Labour, or do they?

no they do not take on nushamebore if they did they would withdraw funding its all about the knighthoods

 

[brasicritique]

aww gee my own sad little cyber stalker i will love you and hug you and water you daily

 

[poster342002]

Make the Union leaders accountable.

A big fat "how?" is missing from that post.

 

[ViolentPanda]

At last the Union bosses take on New Labour, or do they?

no they do not take on nushamebore if they did they would withdraw funding its all about the knighthoods

Any idea which unions still ring-fence the political levy for the Labour party? IIRC Bob Crow's mob have opened theirs up, but I'm not sure how many other unions have done the same.

 

[ViolentPanda]

A big fat "how?" is missing from that post.

Unions would probably have to amend their constitutions to include far more plebiscites/ballots on a broader range of issues, for a start.

 

[poster342002]

Unions would probably have to amend their constitutions to include far more plebiscites/ballots on a broader range of issues, for a start.

How do you force them to do this? If the leaders and officers don't want to be made more accountable, I'd be amazed if there were any way of compelling them to be. They'll just block, stonewall and obstruct any attempt to do so.

 

[Nigel]

Cheer us all up then

A weak Tory government maybe better than a strong New Labour one.

Not advocating voting Tory, but neither tactical voting to 'KEEP THE TORIES OUT'

 

[ViolentPanda]

How do you force them to do this? If the leaders and officers don't want to be made more accountable, I'd be amazed if there were any way of compelling them to be. They'll just block, stonewall and obstruct any attempt to do so.

Most union AGMs still allow motions from the floor. It's a case of finding a delegate willing to propose a motion and then working from there.

 

[poster342002]

Most union AGMs still allow motions from the floor. It's a case of finding a delegate willing to propose a motion and then working from there.

First of all, getting a motion put up can be a nigh-impossible task in itself if no-one's prepared to second it (and in workplaces permeated by fear of management reprisals, that's a very real danger) and - if the motion is critical of current union practises - the branch officials themselves may be reluctant to push the motion even if passed at branch AGM level. If passed at Branch AGM lelvel, there's always the chance of soem standing-orders commitee getting it struck off. If it somehow gets past all those hurdles, there's the likelyhood of it not getting past the national AGM. If (and you see the diminishing chances here, don't you?) it gets past the national AGM, there's every chance it will still just be ignored. Maybe next year you come back with a censure motion - which similarly can be ignored.

 

[nightbreed]

A big fat "how?" is missing from that post.

The ball is in your court poster. YOU answer how.....

 

[nightbreed]

First of all, getting a motion put up can be a nigh-impossible task in itself if no-one's prepared to second it (and in workplaces permeated by fear of management reprisals, that's a very real danger) and - if the motion is critical of current union practises - the branch officials themselves may be reluctant to push the motion even if passed at branch AGM level. If passed at Branch AGM lelvel, there's always the chance of soem standing-orders commitee getting it struck off. If it somehow gets past all those hurdles, there's the likelyhood of it not getting past the national AGM. If (and you see the diminishing chances here, don't you?) it gets past the national AGM, there's every chance it will still just be ignored. Maybe next year you come back with a censure motion - which similarly can be ignored.

Fuck me , here we go!!! Why do you bother? Just give up then. Its obvious to me that as far as you are concerned everything is pointless.

Why dont you become self employed? You then wouldnt have to worry about minor things like unions. It is clearly obvious to me that you would be happier.

 

[Urbanblues]

Any idea which unions still ring-fence the political levy for the Labour party? IIRC Bob Crow's mob have opened theirs up, but I'm not sure how many other unions have done the same.

Unite does.

 

[Urbanblues]

Unions would probably have to amend their constitutions to include far more plebiscites/ballots on a broader range of issues, for a start.

It'd need a Rule Change in Unite.

 

[poster342002]

Fuck me , here we go!!! Why do you bother? Just give up then. Its obvious to me that as far as you are concerned everything is pointless.

Why dont you become self employed? You then wouldnt have to worry about minor things like unions. It is clearly obvious to me that you would be happier.

Sorry to piss on your parade by tuning into Reality FM. I note you have no answer (and nobody ever does) to the scenario I describe, either.

 

[nightbreed]

Sorry to piss on your parade by tuning into Reality FM. I note you have no answer (and nobody ever does) to the scenario I describe, either.

The only reality you have experience of is the stinking cess pool you live in.

No one is saying organising in the workplace is easy . Im certainly not arguing that its a peice of piss to reclaim the unions. But its the only way so the reality is that we as lay members have to organise against all the obstacles put in front of us by the bureaucracy and change them into fighting unions.

If your choice is to cackle cynically on your own in the corner then thats up to you. Im pretty realistic to the fact that its a uphill battle trying to change the unions but its the only choice on offer.

 

[poster342002]

the reality is that we as lay members have to organise against all the obstacles put in front of us by the bureaucracy and change them into fighting unions.

If your choice is to cackle cynically on your own in the corner then thats up to you. Im pretty realistic to the fact that its a uphill battle trying to change the unions but its the only choice on offer.

At what point do you accept that you're wasting your time and that it simply cannot be done? I reached that point circa 1999 - 2001.

 

[durruti02]

First of all, getting a motion put up can be a nigh-impossible task in itself if no-one's prepared to second it (and in workplaces permeated by fear of management reprisals, that's a very real danger) and - if the motion is critical of current union practises - the branch officials themselves may be reluctant to push the motion even if passed at branch AGM level. If passed at Branch AGM lelvel, there's always the chance of soem standing-orders commitee getting it struck off. If it somehow gets past all those hurdles, there's the likelyhood of it not getting past the national AGM. If (and you see the diminishing chances here, don't you?) it gets past the national AGM, there's every chance it will still just be ignored. Maybe next year you come back with a censure motion - which similarly can be ignored.

dear oh dear .. whats wrong with people these days .. they give in so fucking easy .. so look who told you life was a bowl of cherries???? come on we ALL know only too well it is a fucking uphill battle .. we ALL know about scummy union leaderships etc etc .. you MAY well be right .. so do somthing else come up with something else start something else ..

 

[durruti02]

At what point do you accept that you're wasting your time and that it simply cannot be done? I reached that point circa 1999 - 2001.

and what you done constructive since then then?

 

[dennisr]

All I can do is apologise. A lot of the stewards are quite new and we really didn't mean to step on anyones toes. Maybe we could link the campaigns together?

aww thats sweet - step on their toes

 

[dennisr]

and what you done constructive since then then?

cpme on - the truth - he did nothing then - the fellas a liar

 

[nightbreed]

At what point do you accept that you're wasting your time and that it simply cannot be done? I reached that point circa 1999 - 2001.

Im not wasting my time. Simple.

 

[Hi-ASL]

It is 6.34am.

Rest assured, you are wasting your time.

I am wasting my time.

We are all wasting our time.

What's this thread about?

 

[glenquagmire]

Back on topic (maybe): http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/jul/18/labour.tradeunions

 

[poster342002]

dear oh dear .. whats wrong with people these days .. they give in so fucking easy .. so look who told you life was a bowl of cherries???? come on we ALL know only too well it is a fucking uphill battle .. we ALL know about scummy union leaderships etc etc .. you MAY well be right .. so do somthing else come up with something else start something else ..

durruti, that's just it - I didn't give up easy. I was ground down by 20 years of bitter experience and I really don't see it changing. I've yet to see any development around me that suggests any sort of turnaround is possible.

I have also seen how the scummy inter-personal politics and allegiances above-and-over the political cause really fuck over the chance of meaningful progress, too.

 

[brasicritique]

Any idea which unions still ring-fence the political levy for the Labour party? IIRC Bob Crow's mob have opened theirs up, but I'm not sure how many other unions have done the same.

its not about ringfencing thats a red herring unions may fund other causes such as unison - BUT its about who funds nushamebore and why. This i sa hell of a serious question given all the big brother legislation that has been brought in and that WILL be used against the unions themselves in the next 10 years. The unions bank roll labour, the union leaders moan just enough to 'keep it real' and not offend there best mates in the labour party so they will get there knighthoods the same way as the tories will give knighthoods to big buissness pals which shows the depths the union leaders have sunk to really .There leaders might have always brought knighthoods but now they are prepared to share them with big buissness nushamebore donors as well. Sit at the same table indeed. If you fund a politcal party to the tune of millions and are meant to work in the interest of your members then the question is why have the unions leaders not done nothing until now? you do not need to have strikes to make a point crow is an excellent union leader and why is that? because he belives in what he does the others are all johnson waanabee on the make


btw crow is about the only

 

[ViolentPanda]

its not about ringfencing thats a red herring unions may fund other causes such as unison - BUT its about who funds nushamebore and why. This i sa hell of a serious question given all the big brother legislation that has been brought in and that WILL be used against the unions themselves in the next 10 years. The unions bank roll labour, the union leaders moan just enough to 'keep it real' and not offend there best mates in the labour party so they will get there knighthoods the same way as the tories will give knighthoods to big buissness pals which shows the depths the union leaders have sunk to really .There leaders might have always brought knighthoods but now they are prepared to share them with big buissness nushamebore donors as well. Sit at the same table indeed. If you fund a politcal party to the tune of millions and are meant to work in the interest of your members then the question is why have the unions leaders not done nothing until now? you do not need to have strikes to make a point crow is an excellent union leader and why is that? because he belives in what he does the others are all johnson waanabee on the make

btw crow is about the only

I don't disagree with any of that. There's always been a fairly stiff undercurrent of "labour right" to our unions. Not all of them have been as utterly arselicking as the AEEU under Eric Hammond, but some of them have come close, given the amount of establishment rectum they slip their tongues up.
IMO there's too much careerism, and a bit too much "we fund labour because we've always funded labour", and not enough "what's best for our members" going on.
And if what's best for the members is a principled fight against the neo-liberal consensus then that's exactly what they should be engaging in, not sucking capital's cock.