Assassination of Tony Blair - morally justifiable?

[Greebozz]

Prefeably none.

But the point is that if they knew they were in real danger of being offed they might be a bit less keen to fuck people over.

The rulers will go as far, and do as much as they are allowed to get away with.

The thing is old chum is that human being are warlike, in has been shown though all evolution and history.

You seem to work on the premise that eveyone else is the world and loving hippies and it is nasty Blair who is the evil one making war.

We needed to be sure Saddam was not making WMDs, objective achieved.

PS. Note to any other psycotic dictator. don't pretend to have a WMD program in order to look hard, it would save a lot of bother.

 

[bluestreak]

The thing is old chum is that human being are warlike, in has been shown though all evolution and history.

You seem to work on the premise that eveyone else is the world and loving hippies and it is nasty Blair who is the evil one making war.

We needed to be sure Saddam was not making WMDs, objective achieved.

PS. Note to any other psycotic dictator. don't pretend to have a WMD program in order to look hard, it would save a lot of bother.

you really sound like a pillock, you know that?

 

[Lock&Light]

Coming from you that's really funny. Anymore hypocritical pieces of bullshit you'd like to share?

I'd have been prepared to reply if you had been able to ask a civil question. As it is, I quote you for posterity.

 

[Lock&Light]

you really sound like a pillock, you know that?

He will know that you sound like a pillock by asking such a stupid question.

 

[Greebozz]

you really sound like a pillock, you know that?

You really must stop talking about yourself in that way.

 

[Kaka Tim]

PS. Note to any other psycotic dictator. don't pretend to have a WMD program in order to look hard, it would save a lot of bother.

Actually the message sent was - make sure you have a WMD program up and running as then the US wont attack you.

And Iran has clearly understood that one.

 

[kerb]

You arrogant POS - 'I voted from an Iraqi, Afghan viewpoint, not from my own POV'

So you know the intimate thoughts of all those millions of people do you? And you think that you can speak for them?

One of the most insulting, ill thought out and idiotic, patronising neo-imperialist bits of twattery I've ever read on Urban.

No i dont know the intimate thoughts but it wouldnt be too difficult to guess. I know im not the voice of millions but perhaps maybe just a couple. therefore they may think it is morally acceptable, and that is what the thread is about. so it looks like i have to be hypothetical. well lets just say soze, your country gets invaded for no good reason. wouldnt your want just a little bit of revenge? who wouldnt? a couple? then yes it is morally justifiable. From their pov.
and dont make me out to be some neo-imperilasit. i never agreed with this.


Talking of imperilism what the hell was the war over about? its a strand of behaviour thats been going on for centuries and its just carrying on. Rich countries fucking over the weak again and again and again...

 

[Greebozz]

Actually the message sent was - make sure you have a WMD program up and running as then the US wont attack you.

And Iran has clearly understood that one.

Could you rest easy knowing that those crazy suicide nutters that regularly blow up themselves in crowded markets, had access to chemical or biological or nuclear weapons?

 

[Kaka Tim]

Could you rest easy knowing that those crazy suicide nutters that regularly blow up themselves in crowded markets, had access to chemical or biological or nuclear weapons?

What's your point caller?

That we keep on invading anywhere a bit towel headed until they're all peaceful and democractic like Iraq and Afghanistan?

Or that we stop making these weapons in the first place?

 

[likesfish]

if blair does'nt like people talking about planning to kill him he can fcuk off to america we still have freedom of speech here one of the things I served my country to defend.
now back to the important point .243 calibre very fast but short ranged or .338 magnum very long ranged and a very impressive hole.
don't bother about body armour if I'm shooting him its got to be right smack in the face
personaly I think a few shot ministers would be a good thing goverments should
be afraid of there people

 

[Fong]

some people on this thread are disposed to make the whole fact of war contingent on the character pathologies of one (or two) men.

Any PM would come under immense pressure to back whatever the US was doing, such are the economic/political/security etc. ties binding the British Foreign Office and the State Department. Think 'Dave' Cameron would have acted any different? Or Gordon? I doubt it, frankly.

It is not the act of helping the US that makes him a murderer, it is the lies he told.

Look, if a copper shots a man because that man is armed and dangerous and posing an imminent threat to the public, he is not a murderer, if he shots a man who is not armed, not dangerous, and then lies about it, then he is a murderer.

I don't think many people would have expected us to refuse to help the US in any action in Iraq, I think most of us are upset by the fact that the PM lied to us to convince us it was the 'right' thing to do when he knew they were lies.

If the PM had just said, America has requested our help and I don't feel I can say no, the intelligence I am getting isn't telling me what Bush is saying, but regardless of that I feel the need to be at the Americans side....

Considering what had happened on 11/9 and considering the groundswell of sympathy people felt for the US at the time, only the hardcore anti-war peeps would have been up in arms.

Most people like myself who aren't 'particularly' opposed to war would have accepted that as a legitimate reason.

Our anger would NOW be directed at G W Bush, we would be talking about whether HIS assassination would be morally justified and not the PMs.

Telling me we were in danger of attack in 45 minutes, while neglecting to point out that this was by bullets on a battlefield in Iraq, by directly misleading the public into thinking they were in danger, the man lied.

Therefore we are discussing the moral justification of assassinating him.

 

[articul8]

Telling me we were in danger of attack in 45 minutes, while neglecting to point out that this was by bullets on a battlefield in Iraq, by directly misleading the public into thinking they were in danger, the man lied.

Therefore we are discussing the moral justification of assassinating him.

I've no wish to exonerate Blair. But its important to realise that the decisions of any PM would be hugely influenced by the advice they are given - security briefings, risk assessments, etc.

The problem therefore goes well beyond the (dubious) idea that Blair is an extremely dishonest individual. Assassinating him would be massively counterproductive because it would empower the very system that enabled his defective decision making.

What's needed is not just a more honest PM. We have to understand of the class role of the State and the context of global imperialism if we are going to change it. Making pseudo-radical statments about assassinating Blair achieves precisely fuck all.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Assassinating him would be massively counterproductive because it would empower the very system that enabled his defective decision making.

It also raises a rather more important question about anybody who thinks it's all right, to wit "who do you think you are?".

 

[Greebozz]

What's your point caller?

That we keep on invading anywhere a bit towel headed until they're all peaceful and democractic like Iraq and Afghanistan?

Or that we stop making these weapons in the first place?

To me you come accross as an enemy of the UK, plain and simple. People who want to see harm done to the UK have there own propaganda.

The removal of 911 form the equation is very noticable.

 

[Fong]

I've no wish to exonerate Blair. But its important to realise that the decisions of any PM would be hugely influenced by the advice they are given - security briefings, risk assessments, etc.

The problem therefore goes well beyond the (dubious) idea that Blair is an extremely dishonest individual. Assassinating him would be massively counterproductive because it would empower the very system that enabled his defective decision making.

What's needed is not just a more honest PM. We have to understand of the class role of the State and the context of global imperialism if we are going to change it. Making pseudo-radical statments about assassinating Blair achieves precisely fuck all.

Yes but we KNOW that they purposely omitted the point that being attacked in 45 minutes was relating to, in the report he was given, how fast the Iraqi troops could mobilise against our troops IN IRAQ. The information presented was like Iraq could attack the UK in 45 minuntes, they purposely misled us on that fact, they purposely cut out the part about it being ballistics, tanks and guns. They purposely cut that out of the report, at the point of delivery. ie the report said what we actually know now, and Alastar Campbell and his mob cut out the part about it being in Iraq so that it read like the UK could be under attack in 45 mins.

They were also well aware of the fact that the 'report' from Nigera about Nuclear components was a forgery, but used it as 'evidence' all the same, despite KNOWING it was a forgery at the time. I mean, it wasn't even a clever forgery, it was a rubbish forgery that was considered 'laughable' by most official agencies.

It isn't a 'mistake' when you know it's lies you are perpetuating.

Of course it achieves fuck all, if I really cared that much, I would attempt to kill himself, but I don't, I just want to emphasize how much I disagree with him, how much I think he is a liar and how much I think he should pay for what he has done.

By stating that his assassination is morally justifiable, I am doing that.

As someone else said, I would much rather see him in the dock for the lies he has told, but that isn't going to happen, the next best thing is to move straight on to his execution.

 

[liampreston]

Demanding the execution of a democratically elected leader? Is this the rotten core of the far-left?

I am very certain that this forum would be up in flames if, say, an icon of the far-right demanded the killing of a British politician....

 

[Barking_Mad]

I wonder how many people here support the war but are whining about people talking about Blair being knocked off? Personally I don't think its justifiable at all, but it seems some on this thread want to have their cake and eat it.

Killing 100,000 Iraqis is something they can turn a blind eye to - kiling the man who is in part responsible for the deaths of 100,000 Iraqis is a reprehensible action in which they suddenly find a moral.

Fucking hypocrites.

 

[articul8]

It isn't a 'mistake' when you know it's lies you are perpetuating.

I never suggested it was a 'mistake' - but nor does it boil down to the moral integrity of the leader.

No one i take it is suggesting that Blair is a evil sadist delighting in the death of Iraqi civilians simply for its own sake?

Any deliberate screening/manipulation of security info was (mis)informed in the interest of a whole network of economic and political interests which bind uK foreign policy to the US. Fulminating about how morally outrageous Blair has been misses the structural conditions which produce mass murder.

You can be an unremitting opponent of war without wanting Blair picked off by some individual headcase (not least because of the consequences that would have). Why overestimate Blair? He's a pretty unremarkable apologist for the status quo IMV. The next one (Gordon? "Dave"?) will probably be just as bad.

 

[bluestreak]

You really must stop talking about yourself in that way.

cutting. i'm truly destroyed by the cut and thrust of your debate. i am no longer a person who believes in peace and communication, but instead i am a rabid convert into the world of lies, excuses and warfare like yourself.

 

[liampreston]

I wonder how many people here support the war but are whining about people talking about Blair being knocked off? Personally I don't think its justifiable at all, but it seems some on this thread want to have their cake and eat it.

Killing 100,000 Iraqis is something they can turn a blind eye to - kiling the man who is in part responsible for the deaths of 100,000 Iraqis is a reprehensible action in which they suddenly find a moral.

Fucking hypocrites.

This is absolutely the point in my mind from the moment I heard the quote from Galloway. It seems to be some kind of kneejerk reaction from the farleft. If you don't disagree with someone, better to slogan shout and grandstand than anything else. I am not sure I can believe that some on this forum genuinely think it would be somehow excusable to execute the democratically elected head of the Government, but maybe the far-left think have different thought processes to the rest of us?

 

[MatthewCuffe]

The problem is that the left-wing of this country has been largely excluded from having a voice in its mainstream institutions, eg Parliament.

Assassination is an awful and absurd idea. However, it is being discussed because this right-wing clique called New Labour have bullied opposition and criticism.

Which is why we need the removal of Mr.Blair urgently - and peacefully.

 

[Major Tom]

Demanding the execution of a democratically elected leader? Is this the rotten core of the far-left?

Blair wasn;t democratically elected.

He used his connections and influence to get the top job in labour, and Labour lied their way to power in 1997. People voted for a left wing govenrment and they got neo-con Blair.

The most you can say about Blair is that his backers took full advantage of a skewed electoral system to manouvre him into power. Is this your idea of democracy?

 

[MatthewCuffe]

Major Tom - correct, entirely.

This is not a democracy. It is no longer useful to pretend that it is.

It could be a democracy again, but only if we make it so - peacefully.

 

[liampreston]

Our voting system is a shambles, but it is a form of democracy...You don't agree with Blair being the leader of the Labour Party but he was chosen and elected through the processes of their party. He's the MP for Sedgefiield, democratically elected...

I know the far-left don't always like the facts but these are they...Demonstrate for his resignation, demonstrate for his impeachment, but be very careful about the enthusiasm for killing a British member of parliament, whoever he may be. You cannot cry foul over the deaths of innocent civilians, bemoan the bloodlust of our leaders, and then plot and plan how Blair should be shot...

 

[Mungy]

no. it would make him a martyr to the government wouldn't it. just as killing maggie in brighton all those years ago would have done.

something has got to change, but i dunno how we turn it around though.

 

[TAE]

To me you come accross as an enemy of the UK, plain and simple.

Why?

 

[fela fan]

Tony blair is best off sent to prison for his war crimes.

No killing is ever acceptable, as soon as it is, one has accepted the premise that there can never be peace amongst human beings.

One must never fight bad with bad. Only with good. It's the only way.

Get the man to prison, sharpish. We're not america. Forget capital punishment, but do just get him behind bars where he absolutely belongs.

 

[X-77]

Get the man to prison, sharpish. We're not america. Forget capital punishment, but do just get him behind bars where he absolutely belongs.

the thing is, this just ain't gonna happen if we're honest, is it?

there is more chance that the fucker will be assassinated than of him being hauled before the ICC and sentenced to life in prison..

 

[Major Tom]

As far as I'm concerned I'll be happy when every man, woman and child in Britain sees Blair for the warmongering crooked necon toadie that he is. If he is booed at every venue, shunned by his former friends and colleagues, and generally treated as the scumbag traitor he really is I'll be happy.

We don;t need to kill him, and nor would I support such a futile gesture.

Only - if an Iraqi who's family had been wiped out in one of Blair's atrocities was to take such an action, I don;t think I'd be preapared to be telling the assassassin that what they did was morally wrong.

 

[Kaka Tim]

Demanding the execution of a democratically elected leader? Is this the rotten core of the far-left?
...

Who is demanding the execution of anyone?

the issue is wether blair getting offed by Iraqis would be legitimate and/or morally justifiable. Not wether is should happen - although I cant say id be upset.

Unless your an out and out pacifist I cant see how it can not be legitamate and/or morally justifiable - he was party to an invasion of their country and is repsonsible for tens of thousands (at least) of innocent lives being lost.

Same as the death of milosovic, putin or sharon at the respective hands of the bosnians, chechnyans or palastinians would be.