ASBOs and the police + drugs update

[Donna Ferentes]

Lots of people like to consume recreationals, me included.

It's odd - I've read so many posts from you
About the law, and what it means to you
You like the thought of jail, for people who transgress
Prisons, and sentences - you'd vote for more, not less.
Yet you yourself have quite a different code:
You break the law on drugs (and on the road).
So let's be clear - what we're seeing here
Is what the well-off always think is fair
Impunity for those who get deliveries to their door
And crackdowns for the people who use the street to score.

 

[Giles]

It's odd - I've read so many post from you
About the law, and what it means to you
You like the thought of jail, for people who transgress
Prisons, and sentences - you'd vote for more, not less.
Yet you yourself have quite a different code:
You break the law on drugs (and on the road).
So let's be clear - what we're seeing here
Is what the well-off always think is fair
Impunity for those who get deliveries to their door
And crackdowns for the people who use the street to score.

I'm just pointing out, there is no need for aggressive street dealing. It annoys people who want nothing to do with it, it makes people feel unsafe, and drags an area down.

Why do you have to see this as a rich v poor thing?

Its not. I am just pointing out that there are far more "socially acceptable" and less annoying ways for those who want to, to buy and sell their drugs, without fucking off just about everyone else.

Giles..

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Why do you have to see this as a rich v poor thing?

Why rich v poor? Because it's how you view it.
When there are people that you find suspicious
Your attitudes towards them are quite vicious.
But you - you want the cops to leave you to it.
Either it is a moral issue, or it's not -
Crime's crime, and though there are gradations
We're still discussing the same situation.
You're breaking laws, just like the other lot.
And what makes that impossible to see
Is habit - the well-off always think
That they're not like the rest. Call it a class instinct
Or what you like. It's still hypocrisy.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

I'll speak again, perhaps. What I'm saying is this
You're keen on law 'n' order, where others are concerned
And yet you break the law yourself. It's a hard point to miss.
So here's, perhaps, the lesson to be learned
When talking about criminals - you're one. Adopt another voice.
Stop screaming "get them" all the time. Stop invoking choice.

 

[Giles]

Why rich v poor? Because it's how you view it.
When there are people that you find suspicious
Your attitudes towards them are quite vicious.
But you - you want the cops to leave you to it.
Either it is a moral issue, or it's not -
Crime's crime, and though there are gradations
We're still discussing the same situation.
You're breaking laws, just like the other lot.
And what makes that impossible to see
Is habit - the well-off always think
That they're not like the rest. Call it a class instinct
Or what you like. It's still hypocrisy.

In my ideal world, you would be able to walk into your local drugs shop, and buy what you want over the counter, with no looking over your shoulder for cops, or worrying about being done for possession. That's always been my view, which I have stated on here often enough.

But I still find aggressive street dealing annoying and I can see that to some people, it can be scary. Even given the current illegality of drugs, there are nicer and less objectionable ways of going about it. That's all I am saying.

Giles..

 

[tarannau]

With the greatest of respect Giles, whatever changes future legislation may hold, folks dealing on the street are unlikely to suddenly find the capital to open a weed vending shop or cafe.

'Aggressive' weed dealing seems a bit of an exaggeration to say the least. OK. so the whistling may be annoying, as is the sheer repetitiveness of the 'skunk' gabble, but they're hardly chasing folks down the road thrusting big buds of puff into unsuspecting punters' faces and shouting 'g'wan, g'wan, you know you want some' like a yardie version of Mrs Doyle.

Perhaps it's the British reserve, but it's not really that hard to say 'no' and walk away ime. Some folks seem to talk about Brixton like it's Delhi - not even close, but it's always had banter and bustle on the streets.

 

[tippee]

I assume this is a disaster for property values?

Twat.

It's a disaster for people waiting for a bus.

 

[poster342002]

Wouldn't you agree that Brixton has improved massively for the majority of its tenants over the past 20 years?

In some ways, yes, in others, no.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

It's a disaster for people waiting for a bus.

Disaster? No. An inconvenience. A pain.
Try and avoid hyperbole in what you say.

 

[poster342002]

It's a disaster for people waiting for a bus.

EXACTLY. You can't get near the bus stops just outside woolworths and iceland at times unless your either, a; a drug buyer or b; a drug dealer.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

That's not entirely true -
There's usually a queue.

 

[poster342002]

That's not entirely true -
There's usually a queue.

Yeah - outside the shelters in the sodding rain because the shelters are occupied by drug dealers.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

If so you state
Then you exaggerate.

 

[poster342002]

It is not an exaggeration, as you well know. Stop defending the indefensible and denying the undeniable.

 

[tippee]

Disaster? No. An inconvenience. A pain.
Try and avoid hyperbole in what you say.

OK Miss. Sorry I haven't got my homework today, I left it on the bus...

 

[Donna Ferentes]

It is not an exaggeration, as you well know. Stop defending the indefensible and denying the undeniable.

In all my time in Brixton - indeed, I was just there
I never saw any such sight. Hyperbole, I fear.

 

[poster342002]

In all my time in Brixton - indeed, I was just there
I never saw any such sight. Hyperbole, I fear.

Walk past it with your eyes closed, then, did you?

 

[tarannau]

EXACTLY. You can't get near the bus stops just outside woolworths and iceland at times unless your either, a; a drug buyer or b; a drug dealer.

Oh, grow up and get a grip. I get the feeling that you don't catch the bus all that often Poster. I can always get near the bus stops, hell I even catch buses there from there on a regular basis. Judging by the crowds around the buses, I'm not the only one.

Being slightly less facetious (and it's difficult given the hysterical exagerrations of certain posters) it hasn't been a bus stop where people sit down and queue up in an orderly fashion for many a year. Most people never stood under the shelters anyway, preferring the other sheltered shop doorways and amassing near the stop itself, hoping to get a headstart on the bus bumrush.

Which makes the decision to remove the busstops even more puzzling and irrelevant. They've only deprived a few folks from seats whilst doing nothing to cut out the opportunities for dealers.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

That's one thing that's really improved in the quarter century ( ) that I've lived here....loads more buses, loads more routes.

 

[tarannau]

It's a shame that Streatham High Road hasn't developed to keep up with all those new buses. I'm sure I remember the days when a trip on the 118 to Streatham Vale from Brixton didn't entail such a glacially slow journey. Give it a couple more years and I'll need to take a portaloo, some sarnies and a sleeping bag before I can face undertaking such a mission.

 

[TopCat]

ASBO's really are an offence against any sort of democracy.

I have been buying weed in Brixton for 25 years and the dealing was more prevalent then rather than now.

I still for the life of me can't see why a few incomers are so concerned and threatend by a few fellas saying "skunk" when they walk past.

 

[poster342002]

I still for the life of me can't see why a few incomers are so concerned and threatend by a few fellas saying "skunk" when they walk past.

For the Umpdred-and-Umpety-Umpth time, it's NOT just incomers who are fed up with it. Many of us have lived here as long or longer than yourself and thoroughly pissed off with it and have gone into the reasons why over and over again - see posts and threeads passim.

To be honest, I've found it's the incomers who've descended on the place over the last seven years or so who've gone around lecturing the locals and pontifcating on the virtues of putting up with unwanted drug dealing.

 

[poster342002]

TBH, my experience suggests that the police are hesitant at taking on some of the more (ahem) frightening looking youngsters in the public spaces, tending to stop more of the more restful looking folks and more isolated individuals.

That is wrong and does need to be addressed.

 

[RushcroftRoader]

ASBO's really are an offence against any sort of democracy.

I have been buying weed in Brixton for 25 years and the dealing was more prevalent then rather than now.

I still for the life of me can't see why a few incomers are so concerned and threatend by a few fellas saying "skunk" when they walk past.

Have you read any posts on this subject in the last year???!!

 

[tarannau]

For the Umpdred-and-Umpety-Umpth time, it's NOT just incomers who are fed up with it. Many of us have lived here as long or longer than yourself and thoroughly pissed off with it and have gone into the reasons why over and over again - see posts and threeads passim.

Yes, but you've never really given a good reason why it's that big a problem in reality. Why is saying 'no' so difficult for you? Frankly hysterical hyperbole, like your description of being unable to get 'near' the busstops, marks you out as someone who needs to get a sense of perspective. Christ, it's not a real hardship to walk past someone is it?

Somehow I sense that few things would make you happy Poster342002 and it's illuminating that many of the posters complaining about the dealers do tend to be incomers, or are approaching different stages of life. No disrespect, but I suspect some of them had unrealistic expectations about how quickly the area would change and go upmarket.

Compared to the wild west atmosphere of the 7-11 back in the day the puff yellers ain't all that bad. I suspect people's memories of the past are far more rose tinted than they'd admit.

 

[detective-boy]

If this is all true, then it is an utter, utter scandal. WHY are magistrates and the council behaving in this way?

Mainly because everyone always blames the police for every crime problem and so they don't give a fuck cos they don't have to deal with the shit.

 

[detective-boy]

Unless the law has changed recently, I'm pretty sure that if you're offering for sale something purporting to be a drug, you can actually get arrested/charged for that offence, even if it is tea leaves/mixed herbs or whatever. Perhaps Detective Boy can confirm....?

Yes, it may be an offence underthe Misuse of Drugs Act of counselling or procuring someone to commit an offence, it may be an attempt or aiding and abetting an attempt to supply and / or possess or it may be obtaining property (the money) by deception depending on the exact circumstances.

And there is no reason why such activity could not lead to an ASBO on it's own anyway.

 

[detective-boy]

Personally I blame Paddock and his ridiculous 'experiment'.

Perhaps you care to explain what you think Cmdr Paddick's "experiment" was and how, exactly, that led to more street dealing?

 

[detective-boy]

ASBO's really are an offence against any sort of democracy.

And how do you reach that conclusion?

 

[bluestreak]

It is not an exaggeration, as you well know. Stop defending the indefensible and denying the undeniable.

hmm, well in the six months now that i've lived in brixton i ahve to admit that i think you're talking total shite. the bus stops down that way are most certainly not solely occupied by the dealers, in fact they're a tiny minority and there seems to be many many people who don't obviously object to sharing their bus wait with these idiots.

this is not to say that i'm a fan of the skunkskunk men, because i'm not and i'd quite happily see them removed from the streets, but it is to say that any suggestion that they drive people away from those bus-stops entirely is horseshit. there are additional bus stops within a couple of minutes walk that serve all the same buses and yet the skunkskunk men still don't drive off a vast amount of human beings who are always waiting for buses there.