timothysutton1
Brixton resident.
RushcroftRoader said:
I have forwarded your initial message onto my three ward councillors and Kate Newham (Lambeth Safety Officer). If I get a reply I will let you know.
ASBOs and the police + drugs update
- Thread starter RushcroftRoader
- Start date
I have forwarded your initial message onto my three ward councillors and Kate Newham (Lambeth Safety Officer). If I get a reply I will let you know.
lang rabbie
Je ne regrette les gazebos
Because almost all of Lambeth Council's ASBO activity has been in the housing department and concentrated on dealing with "neighbours from hell" tenant families on estates in the past???
poster342002 said:
What is in your face? People saying 'skunk? and offering you something. It's hardly the crime of the century, not the greatest inconvenience to say no,
I've got more fond memories of 'old Brixton' than most, but I can guarantee that some folks had far more pressing issues than the odd bloke vending something in the street. We had illegal shebeens, shitty crumbling housing stock, vast overcrowding, BNP presence on our doorstep, a constant fear of violence and harrassment (both from the police and locals), a sense that nothing would change.
And yet you're really going to make someone saying a word to you into such a big issue, as if it's really significant of Brixton going downhill in some way. Can't you just consider the idea that it may just be your expectations of Brixton changing, or something about your stage of life?
Yes, street dealers are a pain in the arse sometimes, but they're hardly significant in my book. For all the guff written about Brixton I'm still hugely proud of the area and where I grew up - it's not perfect by any means, but I find it difficult to deny that real progress has been made.
poster342002 said:
My experience of magistrates is that they tend to be officious busybodies. I don't believe they would have much sympathy with drug dealers.
The council's lack of action is perhaps more mystifying. But it's worth noting that ASBO'ing the street crews, many of whom are longterm local residents, is far from without its problems.
I suspect any ASBOs would tend to be targeted at the more stable and harmless old timers, not the more verbal 'yardie' style folks who tend to flit in and out of an area.
RushcroftRoader
Well-Known Member
tarannau said:
How come? The old timers are harmless. I hesitate to assume the council has even a modicum of common sense, but surely they can deferentiate?
Anyhow, if they get the guy who was walking up Rushcroft Road with a metal pole in his hand last night, then that would be a good start!
tarannau said:
You shouldn't generalize about magistrates. Many of them are drawn from the Labour Party and/or union movement, and many are *deeply* suspicious of the police. Especially in Brixton, I'd imagine that many magistrates have more sympathy with the dealers than with the cops.
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
Your last sentence, I would suggest
Is less convincing than the rest.
Is less convincing than the rest.
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
Perhaps, Phil, but who really needsphildwyer said:
To keep on hearing it - "skunk weed"?
It never really bothered me -
I wouldn't smoke if it were free.
But when these chaps are all around
It tends to bring a district down
I don't mean price of property -
The cost of housing made me leave.
If it should fall, then I'd say "tough" -
It couldn't drop down far enough.
I mean aggression, and the crime
That hangs around them. All the time.
TBH, my experience suggests that the police are hesitant at taking on some of the more (ahem) frightening looking youngsters in the public spaces, tending to stop more of the more restful looking folks and more isolated individuals. I don't see how the involvement of the council will really change that
For example, I've seen three police stopping my middle aged neighbour by the Ritzy because of a 'suspicious' interaction and treating him pretty badly. Meanwhile the far more chupsty and ostensibly threatening 'skunk, skunk' faces were just nearby, playing football and generally taking the mick. Unless there's real police commitment and courage to getting to the right people effectively and consistently the sentence doesn't really matter imo, whether it be an ASBO or the clink. The worry is that the ASBOs get the soft and more vulnerable targets, not change the pattern of behaviour amongst the committed crims.
For example, I've seen three police stopping my middle aged neighbour by the Ritzy because of a 'suspicious' interaction and treating him pretty badly. Meanwhile the far more chupsty and ostensibly threatening 'skunk, skunk' faces were just nearby, playing football and generally taking the mick. Unless there's real police commitment and courage to getting to the right people effectively and consistently the sentence doesn't really matter imo, whether it be an ASBO or the clink. The worry is that the ASBOs get the soft and more vulnerable targets, not change the pattern of behaviour amongst the committed crims.
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
That's so. But I don't think they like the dealersphildwyer said:
Just because they're not fans of the peelers.
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
What, even those of us who were here BEFORE the "skunk" mumblers were here?phildwyer said:
RushcroftRoader
Well-Known Member
Donna Ferentes said:
brilliant
phildwyer said:
I can only generalise about the two in the area that I know who have volunteered themselves for the role and have done seemingly well for themselves. I admire their commitment, but they're both green and naive. I remember, grimly, one of them talking about the training they received on drugs. Apparently they were led to believe that dealers tended to suck in unsuspecting punters - one second they'd be buying a bit of weed or a pill for the evening, the next and their dealer would be offering them a (I shit you not) a 'goodie bag' containing weed, smack and crack etc to suck them in.
It was the gateway theory gone mad. It's disturbing that people are still teaching stuff like this, let alone believing it and reciting it back.
poster342002 said:
Are you still going on about the 'skunk' thing? What did you moan about before that - hell, there were plenty of things to get your goat back then.
Wouldn't you agree that Brixton has improved massively for the majority of its tenants over the past 20 years?
RushcroftRoader
Well-Known Member
OpalFruit said:
lol, thats terrible!
i got cuddled by a crack dealer on sunday morning cos i suggested he was rubbish as when i wldnt buy drugs off him he tried to 'borrow' £2.
i think my words at the end were 'its a problem, but not my problem'
if only they would cuddle more and hustle less, brixton would be a better place.
i think my words at the end were 'its a problem, but not my problem'
if only they would cuddle more and hustle less, brixton would be a better place.
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
Oh, I don't know
It reads just like the doggerel
That gets into the local press:
Letters in verse that don't express
That much: in fact, mean bugger all
And barely rhyme. And never flow.
It reads just like the doggerel
That gets into the local press:
Letters in verse that don't express
That much: in fact, mean bugger all
And barely rhyme. And never flow.
dogmatique
merde alors
Seconded. I'm so glad Donna still posts from Spain...
Mrs Magpie
On a bit of break...
So when my son gets hassle from dealers in his face offering him drugs (which has happened since he was 12, waiting by the bus stop and offered 'powder, brown') he is somehow the problem and he should leave the town he was born in because he finds it intimidating? You have no idea how offensive I find you. You don't even live in Brixton, and neither do most of the dealers who get arrested.phildwyer said:
Mrs Magpie
On a bit of break...
No it wasn't. I've lived here a very long time, brought up three kids here and have six grandchildren. Yes there were drugs, but it was low-key and non-aggressive. Three years ago I had real problems with guys inside my garden and on my front doorstep selling weed and being generally intimidating. They finally pissed off when I hung out of the window with an SLR and took loads of pictures (actually there was no film in the camera but they didn't know that). There was a bit of fall-out but not that much, mostly idle threats, and the regime of playing Schubert Leider helped a lot too.fortyplus said:
Lots of people like to consume recreationals, me included.
But no-one, wherever they live and whatever they privately do drugwise, likes in-your-face, slightly menacing, annoying street dealers.
Apart from no-idea tourists and the truly fucked up.
There is no need for them, people should buy (and sell) their bits and bobs with a bit more discretion, not in the face of every passing schoolkid and ordinary people who DON'T WANT THE FUCKING HASSLE. A friend of mine lives in Brixton (well, Loughborough Junction) and she gets sick of it, especially that her daughter sees it all the time, and will shortly be old enough to be hassled and offered shit when on her own.
Giles..
But no-one, wherever they live and whatever they privately do drugwise, likes in-your-face, slightly menacing, annoying street dealers.
Apart from no-idea tourists and the truly fucked up.
There is no need for them, people should buy (and sell) their bits and bobs with a bit more discretion, not in the face of every passing schoolkid and ordinary people who DON'T WANT THE FUCKING HASSLE. A friend of mine lives in Brixton (well, Loughborough Junction) and she gets sick of it, especially that her daughter sees it all the time, and will shortly be old enough to be hassled and offered shit when on her own.
Giles..
There's a move to setup a safer neighbourhoods style panel for brixton town center at the moment that could help sort some of out these problems and make sure there is a decent dialog between the police and locals (e.g. guns outside tube stations). But *really* it needs some support.
A couple of months ago the Brixton Town Centre Forum sent a group of residents and traders away to try and set up something like this (myself included). We came up with a plan that would have had 3 residents (representing residents) and 3 traders (etc) reporting to the town center and buisiness forums respectivly, and making sure as much info as possible was made avalable to everyone.
But when it came to setting it up there was a major lack of volunteers and all those who do were very white and very male, which isnt exactly what you want for a comunity policing panel. As a result (rightly IMO) it was shelved.
To their merit the police and council seem to have taken this onbord and have setup public meeting next monday to try again, and have had an attempt at some publicity.
If anyone is interested it's at 7pm on the 11th at the Town Hall in room 125 (nipslas birthday, so im not very popular).
Sorry if this soundly like a winge, but the problem doesnt come down to policing levels and the use of ASBOs alone. IMO the crime problems in brixton arent simple and the only way of begining to sort them out is large scale community involvement. <rant over>
A couple of months ago the Brixton Town Centre Forum sent a group of residents and traders away to try and set up something like this (myself included). We came up with a plan that would have had 3 residents (representing residents) and 3 traders (etc) reporting to the town center and buisiness forums respectivly, and making sure as much info as possible was made avalable to everyone.
But when it came to setting it up there was a major lack of volunteers and all those who do were very white and very male, which isnt exactly what you want for a comunity policing panel. As a result (rightly IMO) it was shelved.
To their merit the police and council seem to have taken this onbord and have setup public meeting next monday to try again, and have had an attempt at some publicity.
If anyone is interested it's at 7pm on the 11th at the Town Hall in room 125 (nipslas birthday, so im not very popular).
Sorry if this soundly like a winge, but the problem doesnt come down to policing levels and the use of ASBOs alone. IMO the crime problems in brixton arent simple and the only way of begining to sort them out is large scale community involvement. <rant over>
Mrs Magpie
On a bit of break...
they've more spare time, innit?memespring said:
Mrs Magpie said:
Funny you should say that - I went to an edemocracy conference in Bristol earlier In the year (I know im sad) and there was someone from one of the polling companies talking (from brixton hill randomly).
According to her the demographic for community actavists was white and male (generally middle class too, although that didnt apply particuarly to the meeting in question) because of time and motivation.
Encouragingly though this seems to be changing because of the use of the internet, in that it lowers (for those who have access) the barriers to cimmunity involvement. As an example there was a guy who runs a huge online community project in Birmingham (equaly randomly his partner was from Brixton) who had figures for this.
Edit: although thinking abut it, im not too sure how much this applys to brixton. Most meetings ive been to are fairly representative in terms of sex and race.
Mrs Magpie said:
definitely preferable to Barry Manilow...
It was certainly blatant in the 80s, but probably more concentrated along Coldharbour Lane/by the old Atlantic; I don't think today's street dealers are any more in your face as they were then. Or maybe it's just that they don't harrass me any more.
But I agree, it may well be more widespread and the kind of localised nuisance you describe moves around to wherever it can get away with it. Landor Road has had its ups and downs over the years...
