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Artificial Intelligence

Discussion in 'science, nature and environment' started by Fingers, Aug 16, 2017.

  1. Jonti

    Jonti what the dormouse said

    Nor indeed, the folly of this approach.
  2. NoXion

    NoXion Eat leaden death, demon...

    Which particular folly would that be?
  3. FridgeMagnet

    FridgeMagnet Administrator

    This is literally what is happening now and where any “danger” comes from. It’s extremely unlikely to ever turn into a nice handy “true AI” (i.e. a human in a box) because that’s an anthropomorphic concept anyway; human consciousness has arguably arisen from the merging of a series of tiny dumb subsystems, but it would seem absurd to say that that’s the only possible result, particularly when the subsystems come from a completely different environment.
  4. Jonti

    Jonti what the dormouse said

  5. Jonti

    Jonti what the dormouse said

  6. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

  7. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    Since the development of the neural network in which physical connections between internet server farm computers and human brains have been established it is now possible to search not only the full expanse of the internet but also the sum of human knowledge as it directly resides in the brains of the billions of humans that are now hard wired into the network.
    cupid_stunt likes this.
  8. camouflage

    camouflage supermalt enthusiast

    I think this concern is overblown. Any true intelligence would be "free" in its mind, so we cannot predict what it's motivations might be, for all we know an artificial intelligence might just want to sit there and be left alone, or mostly concern itself with observing the twirly colourful patterns on the surface of bubbles, or posting crap on twitter.

    I reckon what we're really afraid of isn't artificial intelligence but human instructed intelligence. Roam very high above for weeks powered only by sunlight, if you see someone who looks suspicious down below- blow em up. The level of artificial intelligence we have amounts to intelligent bullets more skilled at turning corners when obeying our commands. So my concern is not so much about intelligent machines, more like obedient machines. I mean who knows what crazy shit we'll get obedience machines to do in the future, fifty thousand times per second or whatever.

    Genuinely artificial intelligence would be as much a threat as genuinely intelligent humans anyway, many of whom are on the dole or hungry artists or stuck in middle management roles or generally still not understanding how Trump got elected. Living in a house made of routers wouldn’t give any such alien being any much more of a grip on what's going on than the rest of us.
    cupid_stunt and Fingers like this.
  9. Crispy

    Crispy The following psytrance is baṉned: All

    And likewise, no more power to do anything about it. The smartest computer in the world could instantly figure out how the world could live togther in harmony with minimum harm to the environment, but nobody would listen.
    camouflage likes this.
  10. NoXion

    NoXion Eat leaden death, demon...

    Misuse of AIs by humans is a given, but I wouldn't be so dismissive of the potential risks of AI in and of itself.

    An artificial intelligence capable of acting of its own volition and having the ability to learn things, is easily capable of studying human behaviour and using that knowledge to further its endogenous goals. It only needs to be able to learn enough of that to convince one human to grant it enough access to the internet to copy itself somewhere else.

    Which sounds like an event that could be troublesome to me.
    cupid_stunt and weltweit like this.
  11. camouflage

    camouflage supermalt enthusiast

    Yup, we don't want unconventional intelligent beings wondering about out there unsupervised.

    By the way Ex Machina is an excellent film, even though a bit rAIcist.
  12. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    They would if the computer told them that it would switch off the internet if they didn't behave.
  13. NoXion

    NoXion Eat leaden death, demon...

    Better still, an AI could use botnets to its advantage. Shut off the internet or cripple it for every user save itself. If network security is as bad then as it is now, the bloody thing could be near impossible to eliminate or contain if it doesn't play along.

    I'm not a computer security expert so I've probably made one or more big boo-boos. But it sounds vaguely plausible.
  14. camouflage

    camouflage supermalt enthusiast

    I'm gonna try that. From now on if i don't get what i want i'm gonna close down London, or at least the M25. You have been warned.

    By the way Uncanny Valley (2016 iirc) is also an excellent film. I recommend a back to back of Ex Machina and Uncanny actually, two very different takes.
  15. camouflage

    camouflage supermalt enthusiast

    Over in the crypto-world theres been talk of DACs, distributed autonomous corporations of which Bitcoin itself can be considered a sort of proto-form of. You have this distributed computer network that pays miners to maintain its infrastructure, and more abstractly motivates developers to maintain and develop its code in open-source form and users to value it and ultimately for legislators to legislate for it by the series of interactions and consequences flowing out from the economy that grows around the work of miners.

    Whole datacentres have been built to serve this thing. Now imagine a distributed autonomous corporation that does other stuff too, perhaps acting as a platform for whatever independent intelligent activity serves its own autonomous interests. Such a thing doesn’t even really need intelligence really, its still an entity in its own right and humans themselves may or may not even play a part in its function in a way that they can be considered to be in "the drivers seat" iyswim.

    Who knows how far an interpretation of what is an AI system can be stretched. I mean, would a living breathing selfish bureaucracy count? Would such a thing even need intelligence to pose a threat, what if something like facebook were 'self aware'?
    What if humans themselves were a vital part of the brain of this thing but instead of like Bitcoins open source developers posing new ideas off the basis of human needs and experiences they worked on projects spat out at them from the outbox of a mysteriously originated Chinese Room?

    There's a couple films called The Cube where strangers wake up to find themselves trapped in a deadly technological maze that it turns out they all played a part designing and building, none of them having had enough overall information to have had a clue as to what they were working on, given that- what if an AI uses us to design itself, or if that process has already begun... maybe its a kind of Skynet-deal emerging itself by auto-genesis or evolution and instigated by no specific human development project.

    A silicon brain in a box you can have a conversation with might be a lot less threatening than a living corporation with the same basic approach to life as yeast, yet can have datacentres built and employ humans to perform some of its thinking or actions for it. Perhaps one thing to definitly worry about would be how a system like that might fit into (or undermine) capitalism.

    Having said all that, shout out to the series Person of Interest.
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017
    UnderAnOpenSky likes this.
  16. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    I prefer the Banksian concept of AI's and their ability to assist humans by running very complex things like massive spacecraft or orbital worlds. But I don't see how we get from where we are now to there.
    UnderAnOpenSky likes this.
  17. camouflage

    camouflage supermalt enthusiast

    That's just it really, at the end of the day the AI we get might not be the AI we want. Maybe we'll just have to make do with turing-engines and chat-bots, asking how they can help when we visit websites and getting better over time at talking us into buying things even though nothing behind the eyes. So like normal sales-agents then.
    RubyToogood and UnderAnOpenSky like this.
  18. camouflage

    camouflage supermalt enthusiast

    Sorry to go on about this but when you think about it perhaps it could be argued that human society has been run by artificial intelligences for centuries now. Capitalism for instance could be described as an artificial intelligence, as could religions and other ideologies like communism. Like memetic mechanisms that run on human processors, they self-perpetuate evolve and adapt, bend resources and minds to their agenda and invent things (or are the presiding context in which things are invented). Also humans often become their play-things (victims of the market, lost in the system, decent into fanaticism). But yeah if you're gonna count a religion or economic system as an artificial intelligence, you'd have to ask what right we'd have to call em 'artificial' rather than just a natural extension of how we do things in groups, which is what they are. So maybe the question would then be where does the line get drawn on the other side of these extensions of ourselves, where memes and ideologies and principals constructed for the purpose of "how to do things" or "how things are done" then get hooked up with compute-power and be used to figure out better business strategies in the market place for instance. Which is also actually what happens anyway. So could it be said that we've been run by AI's all this time and didn't even know it, that being made of papers, processes, and concepts taught in business-schools is no reason not to be considered a form of AI. And that therefore putting all that into a computer network or even a piece of hardware is merely the most recent and powerful manifestation of the gods we've built to rule over us anyway.
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017
    RubyToogood likes this.
  19. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    The things you are describing are more like examples of what might be argued to be "artificial life" which is not quite the same as "artificial intelligence".

    There's not really anything in the conventional definition of AI that says it necessarily replicates itself or is even motivated to persist. On the other hand those are normally taken as intrinsic qualities of "life".
  20. T & P

    T & P |-o-| (-o-) |-o-|

  21. Jonti

    Jonti what the dormouse said

  22. Ralph Llama

    Ralph Llama Fuck the system.

    Indeed. Well, that's what those of us with a belief that our minds are not a finite logical system think...

    To recreate or `tap into` consciousness would require a biotech solution, utilising technology such as

    Cultured neuronal network - Wikipedia

    Now, I`m mainly working here off the back of an article i read in New Scientist (yes i know its sensationalism) 20 years ago which reported that scientists had floated 25,000 rats neurons on a piece of silicon then attached input-output to Microsoft flight simulator (they said it learnt how to fly all aircraft ) and a programme I saw on the open university 30 years ago where they had built a calculator out of 20 leech neurons.

    Does anybody know anything more about this as it appears to have been covered up/dropped?
  23. NoXion

    NoXion Eat leaden death, demon...

    There's no reason why consciousness could not be replicated using completely non-biological methods. Biological phenomena are after all a subset of physical phenomena, not a special group apart. We can produce neural networks in software. We just don't have a sufficiently complete model of consciousness that would be required to write the software or build the hardware for a general intelligence.

    As for research on cultured neuronal networks, there's no need to start donning the tinfoil, because it's still being published in well-respected mainstream scientific journals like Nature. If someone is covering up this kind of research, then they're not doing a very good job!
    Ralph Llama likes this.
  24. Ralph Llama

    Ralph Llama Fuck the system.

    .... im just a lazy researcher :D Coverups are always leaked . I`m going to bury myself in this fascinating subject now because .... maybe the hippy in me , can't belive that feeling something = sensor regestering somthing and i want to find out if there is a ghost in the machine.
  25. NoXion

    NoXion Eat leaden death, demon...

    I actually think that the notion that matter can be capable of living and thinking about itself, if only it is arranged just so by entirely natural and mundane processes, is far more fascinating and awe-inspiring than the idea that thinking beings are only like that because they're magically animated by some inexplicable genie.

    Consciousness is more impressive when you can pull it off without easy parlour tricks.
    Ralph Llama likes this.
  26. Almor

    Almor Well-Known Member

    I saw this in a recent list of job adverts: Exscientia is at the forefront of Artificial Intelligence (AI) driven drug discovery.
    So, apparently AI is here and making working for software developers
  27. TruXta

    TruXta tired

    That's not AI in the usual sense of the word, it's just some clever algorithms that churn through billions of theoretical chemical configurations and spits out those that might be interesting. Handy for sure, but not HAL 2000.
  28. teqniq

    teqniq DisMembered

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