Artex, asbestos & plastering

[Johnny Vodka]

So I've had artex ceilings in my flat replastered previously without anyone asking me about asbestos. I wasn't even aware of the artex/asbestos issue until I was asked about it while gathering quotes for another ceiling I want plastered.

So I had a test done and my artex contains asbestos, which has really bumped up the price on a couple of quotes (and means I'll have no doubt been exposed before). However, a plasterer I had out today said it's not much to worry about it and reckons it's just a way to charge more for a job, he's scraped loads of artex & is still alive, etc

Bit confused now. Should I go for the cheaper quote that doesn't take asbestos into account, or one of the ones that does?

 

[WouldBe]

It's only a problem if you disturb it. Could you put new plasterboard over it (thereby trapping any asbestos) and skim the new boards?

 

[contadino]

We had a plasterer skim straight onto artex on a ceiling and it was fine.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

We had a plasterer skim straight onto artex on a ceiling and it was fine.

Well, no-one drops dead instantly... I've had 2 artex ceilings skimmed previously, but I wasn't aware of the issue then.

 

[Indeliblelink]

Well, no-one drops dead instantly... I've had 2 artex ceilings skimmed previously, but I wasn't aware of the issue then.

Yep, people can die decades after they were exposed to it.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Yep, people can die decades after they were exposed to it.

It's generally cumulative exposure over time that's the problem, I think. I could probably have the two remaining artexed ceilings in my flat plastered with minimal risk to myself, but there's a concern, not so much for the employers who are dismissive of the issue, but any staff they employ who do this frequently.

 

[Sprocket.]

Asbestos is truly hideous and I’ve lost a couple of friends from exposure to it over twenty years ago.
Original Artex was made from asbestos and there were many plasterers suffered from terrible nose bleeds when applying it in the early seventies.
Then Febplast came along which contained no asbestos, this became the market leader and Artex became the name used for the finish. Original Artex eventually being discontinued.
Some plasterers these days will happily cover asbestos Artex with plaster, but I am unsure how this stands legally.
Please be sure to wear a mask if you find any deterioration in your current finish.
The local councils used to offer advice on how to deal with it.

 

[Sprocket.]

It's generally cumulative exposure over time that's the problem, I think. I could probably have the two remaining artexed ceilings in my flat plastered with minimal risk to myself, but there's a concern, not so much for the employers who are dismissive of the issue, but any staff they employ who do this frequently.

One grain of asbestos that is breathed into a lung will possibly develop into mesothelioma.
Up to thirty years later.
I have given evidence in court on two occasions for workmates on compensation claims who sadly died soon after their case was won.

 

[contadino]

Well, no-one drops dead instantly... I've had 2 artex ceilings skimmed previously, but I wasn't aware of the issue then.

It was the advice of the plasterer. I asked him whether the local authority needed to be notified and whether the artex needed to be tested or removed and he said no.

Btw, apparently there's a date from when asbestos was no longer used in artex. I can't remember when he said it was. 80's maybe but you'd need to check.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

It was the advice of the plasterer. I asked him whether the local authority needed to be notified and whether the artex needed to be tested or removed and he said no.

Btw, apparently there's a date from when asbestos was no longer used in artex. I can't remember when he said it was. 80's maybe but you'd need to check.

There isn't a constant position from plasterers IME. Some don't ask about it, some will only invoke asbestos plan if you tell them your artex contains asbestos, some might offer to remove and skim even if they know your artex contains asbestos...

Regardless of previous plastering work, I've also drilled into my ceilings for light fittings and smoke alarms without knowing about this.

 

[quiet guy]

HSE website is good for info on this

Where can you find asbestos? Textured coatings

www.hse.gov.uk

 

[Johnny Vodka]

HSE website is good for info on this

Where can you find asbestos? Textured coatings

www.hse.gov.uk

Hmm. Interesting. Seems strange that there are so many plasterers who either don't know or don't care.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I'd get it dealt with properly now and take the financial hit. It'll devalue the price of your property anyway if you don't.
I wouldn't take the advice of a plasterer. You probably need the council involved.

 

[smmudge]

My wife is an asbestos consultant, honestly you should have seen her face when she read about the plasterer scraping through artex all the time, haha.

But she says it's fine just to plaster on top, and you should definitely just do this, DO NOT scrape into the ceiling ffs. It isn't necessarily cumulative, not wishing to scare you but as Sprocket. says it just takes one fibre. And yes you would be exposed drilling into it...so, stop doing that.

Just plaster on top.

 

[Epona]

My wife is an asbestos consultant, honestly you should have seen her face when she read about the plasterer scraping through artex all the time, haha.

But she says it's fine just to plaster on top, and you should definitely just do this, DO NOT scrape into the ceiling ffs. It isn't necessarily cumulative, not wishing to scare you but as Sprocket. says it just takes one fibre. And yes you would be exposed drilling into it...so, stop doing that.

Just plaster on top.

Aye, when I was in facilities management it was the same advice from asbestos consultants - we had supporting columns where the plaster might be prone to damage boxed in to protect them, but generally you don't rush in for full removal unless it is already damaged, as that is more hazardous.

 

[keybored]

Just plaster on top.

And this is why you should always be wary when working on older properties, even if it looks like it's just plaster.

Fine to plaster over it, not so fine for next owner if they go at it with a hole saw.

 

[smmudge]

Lol funnily enough OH started going on about letting the next owners know that there's asbestos there as well, but maybe that's just a moral rather than legal imperative! (Unless the buyers solicitors specifically ask I suppose, do they even do that??)

But yep encapsulation is generally better than removal if there's no damage to it. No problem plastering over the top, not worth the cost of removing tbh.

 

[rubbershoes]

It's generally cumulative exposure over time that's the problem, I think. I could probably have the two remaining artexed ceilings in my flat plastered with minimal risk to myself, but there's a concern, not so much for the employers who are dismissive of the issue, but any staff they employ who do this frequently.

Mesothelioma can be caused by little exposure

Asbestosis is worse the more exposure there was

 

[Magnus McGinty]

And then the day comes when you want a different light fitting up, which involves new holes in the ceiling as they don't marry up with the old ones so breaking into and disturbing the 'hidden' asbestos.
I say get rid.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

And yes you would be exposed drilling into it...so, stop doing that.

Just plaster on top.

I don't drill into ceilings for fun, you know. In fact, in the almost 20 years I've been here, this was probably the first year I've ever drilled into a ceiling - to replace the broken light fitting and also stick up another bloody (IMO unnecessary) smoke alarm for the Scottish govt. But I would need to stick the light and alarm back up once the work is completed.

 

[smmudge]

I don't drill into ceilings for fun, you know. In fact, in the almost 20 years I've been here, this was probably the first year I've ever drilled into a ceiling - to replace the broken light fitting and also stick up another bloody (IMO unnecessary) smoke alarm for the Scottish govt. But I would need to stick the light and alarm back up once the work is completed.

Heh well, there are electricians asbestos trained and will drill "safely" through artex. Or OH says you can do this if you need to drill through it:

Wear p3 mask
Get someone to "shadow vac" as you do it with a vacuum that uses a bag
Tie the bag up in a duct tape ball afterwards and dispose
Hose down vacuum nozzle outside (or put vacuum in bag and get rid of too..)

Though exposure wouldn't be guaranteed nil, it would reduce your risk a lot. And not naughty as it would still be considered "non-licensable" work.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Thanks for that smmudge Got a reasonable quote from a "takes asbestos seriously" plasterer, just £130 over the cheapest guy that doesn't - so seems like a no-brainer.

 

[quiet guy]

For small scale drilling you can spray some shaving foam on the area to be drilled, then wipe away the residue with the plaster dust caught in the foam and place in a bag and dispose.

https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/guidance/a26.pdf