Army risks losing its reputation, warns general
- Thread starter Kid_Eternity
- Start date
One problem with The Scum is that they prattle on about 'supporting our boys' then set them up on some sort of damned pedestal so that they can get all uppitty about scandals. Most of the crap that is printed in those stories would be pretty standard in any university town.
Th military take a broad cross section of the British (and dependencies) public, though they will attract more individuals with a tendancy to violence. To try and generalise though is patently ridiculous. There are a lot of non-commissioned ranks who are leaving with good qualifications such degrees, MCSE, IOSH, etc.
Th military take a broad cross section of the British (and dependencies) public, though they will attract more individuals with a tendancy to violence. To try and generalise though is patently ridiculous. There are a lot of non-commissioned ranks who are leaving with good qualifications such degrees, MCSE, IOSH, etc.
cemertyone
Well-Known Member
tobyjug said:
OK then ...
Let`s start with the disbandenment of the regional crime squad in the West Midlands region....conviently enough for being ( and this is the quote from the Chief Inspector of forces no less) " As being one of the most corrupt squads that i have ever had the dis-pleasure to investigate"..
Then we will move on to the N.C.I.S. ( National Criminal Intelligence Service) who have 20 plus officers currently under investigation for a variety of offences some of which consist of:
1. Selling information to high level echolon criminals informing them of the state of current investigations into them and thier activities.
2. Selling classified information to News of the World journalists and others.
3. Using there knowledge of police investigations to futher their own financial well-being by taking part in and activley helping to remove known drug dealers that where a threat to there own ( and other) drug selling enterprises.
Then we turn to the " World famous Met"....now TOBY even a very quick look at the disiplinary figures that the Met itself produces ( go to the M.P.A.`s year end report for these) would lead a blind man to conclude that there is within the Met a CONSIDERABLE body of officers who are guilty of Coruption/theft/rasict attacks and right all the way up to murder...
If you chose to live in a rareified Dixon of Dock Green attitude towards the police that`s fine by me...but you see i don`t because the facts and figures don`t support your assumptions....back to you then. love cem
cemertyone
Well-Known Member
bugsy7 said:
I would rather eat glass than be a fucking trained killer for the state thanks ..if thats all right with you just the same....
cemertyone said:I would rather eat glass than be a fucking trained killer for the state thanks ..if thats all right with you just the same....
I appreciate your position on that, I really do. I, personally would welcome nothing more than that all parties to any conflict be invited to a table to discuss the issues involved. But that doesn't take into account the (macho?) values in the issue.
However you want to twist it, these guys (the British Army) are doing a "normal" job (as they understand it) in abnormal circumstances. And perhaps it's helpful to remember that "squaddies" (at least the British) have a much more vivid picture of what they are actually fighting for than is generally thought to be common currency.
MsG
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
cemertyone said:I would rather eat glass than be a fucking trained killer for the state thanks ..if thats all right with you just the same....
I think you're an okay bloke, but your sweeping generalisations really fuck me off. Not every soldier has "trained killer" as his speciality, some get to be cooks, r/t operators and HGV drivers too (among other things).
If I said every republican, let alone every shinner or every PIRA member was a "trained killer" you'd go off like a fucking rocket, so how about you engage your brain befofre spouting bollocks, eh?
Personally I reckon you'd make a great spud-basher. You'd look lovely in a pinny...
cemertyone
Well-Known Member
ViolentPanda said:
Actually..my remark about " state killers " is valid Violent panda and the reason why that is so is because at the very end of the day the army ( and its personel) are at the disposal of the governing political class who have used them ( Iraq for example) to futher the interests of a very small business elite for the purposes of their own self-agrrandishment. Now i`m not for one moment suggesting that ALL and EVERY soldier is in that class. However, you have to conceed that soldiers are State actors and at the disposal of the ruling elite to use as they see fit.
I`m only to aware that the average British soldier has much more qudos and a greater apprication of events occuring in the Middle East etc and does not view things through they same limited prism that some of our U.S. cousins do but it does not change facts on the ground. As regards my "general sweeping statements " about the British Army i will conceed that i have a very large in-built bias against them having suffered on many occasion`s at thier hands.
And your not correct about me going loopy if you posited the same question back to me about members of the Provisional`s, i would happen to agree with you on that one...
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
We're all "state actors", mate. Whether because we pay (direct or indirect) taxes, vote in local or national elections, or are employed by a legally mandated military force.cemertyone said:
The whole trained killers line is "accurate" in that soldiers are trained to kill, but is inaccurate in that being a "trained killer" isn't the sum of their role by a long chalk. If it was they'd be assassins, not soldiers.
As for your point about supporting the establishment, it's true insofar as the officer class generally supports (and is part of) the establishment, but that doesn't necessarily mean that because the brass support something, then the "other ranks" do too, and remember that common soldiers have used the ultimate rebellion, mutiny, at least once in the last 60 years because they didn't agree with "the establishment".
tobyjug said:
Rubbish, its just irrelatant nowadays.Thats how the romans/aztecs/vikings etc and most other people/states did it before 1550.But now we have better toys, so only people who read too much svan hassel are intreasted in there strangling wire!
MC5 said:
Though trained to be exceeding profficient at killing, the SAS actually work in different ways. Their most successful campaigns involved forming relationships with the local people, helping to improve water supplies, provide basic health care, etc. For more details I would suggest reading Ghost Force by Ken Connor.
james_walsh said:
To a point I agree (I never, ever met anyone with a strangling wire!), but most squaddies serve in a support role - cooks, technicians, storemen, engineers, police, etc. Whilst I don't have the figures available, it's likely that 2/3 of the manpower of the British Army actually perform functions such as these. Even many of those in the 'teeth arms' are unlike to have fired their weapons in anger.
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
what we in the trade call a garrotte.tobyjug said:
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
not as many as i used to.Bob_the_lost said:
MikeMcc said:
Just like they did in malaysia when they murdered all the locals in the 1950s
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
Herbert Read said:
that's "forming relationships with local people", in't it? eh?
Pickman's model said:
that's "forming relationships with local people", in't it? eh?
Sort of its murder but whats a good stabbing between mates
tobyjug said:ALL of the locals??????!!!!!!!!
just the women and children usually whaen the male insurgents were out of the village on an action.
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
usually a falling out, ime.Herbert Read said:Sort of its murder but whats a good stabbing between mates
Pickman's model said:usually a falling out, ime.
chaos punk mates
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
MC5 said:
I wouldn't call the SAS soldiers except in the most generic of terms, I'd classify them as members of the "security services" who just happen to operate within a unit under the aegis of the British army. They may still perform certain long-range recon functions for the army, but a lot of their work does have more in common with SIS than normal military endeavours.
I don't class paras as soldiers either, but for a different reason; they're all cunts!
Bigdavalad
New Member
MikeMcc said:Not a student of history then, I take it!
He's right you know, they set up medical facilities, treated their sick children and animals, gave them wireless sets so they could talk to the outside world.................then they machine gunned them.
Or maybe they didn't
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Herbert Read said:
Mmm, I think you're letting your anti-militarism delude you.
While it's likely that (as happened in Kenya) there were cases of "search and destroy" missions being used pour encourager les autres, and just as likely that "special forces" would be used for such missions rather than the poor bloody infantry, I have no doubt it wasn't a hard and fast policy applied to every town, village and hamlet (more liely to have been places where insurgent activity was rife), and that it didn't kill "all the locals".
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