Argggh!!! - Who will speak out against the bankers?
- Thread starter taffboy gwyrdd
- Start date
Perhaps he means "international bankers". 
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I think that really depends what you mean by "power". Some banks have obviously come out of this with more power in the banking sector i.e. having bought up the assets of smaller banks who went bust they have a larger customer base, and more debt owed to them.
In the long run I see the larger banks who have bought and merged with those in trouble coming out with a greater monopoly. BoA have already started shedding tens of thousands of jobs in order to remove duplicate positions since various buy outs.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
"humility" is just an act they can put on while they continue to hoover up assets.
They do have more power, they have been put in charge of more money and the biggest banks are consolidating. Goldman Sachs have admitted they are buying up smaller banks (who werent failing as much) with the bailout money.
Out the other end of a recession the elite can buy everything up cheap.
Indeed, they must be immensly powerful to be running rings round governments like they do.
elbows
Well-Known Member
OK, I guess I see what you mean. But I still think the government have more control over them now, the political wind has turned against them, they cannot give themselves such large bonuses, they will be subject to more scrutiny, and banks are going to become more like boring utilities without the ability to make huge profits out of phoney numbers.
There also remains the very real possibility that things are going to collapse a lot more, and whilst some elite people may benefit, mot run the risk of losing their grip altogether. We aint seen nothing yet.
Likeise there may well be attempts to have more 'global goernance' that may resemble a world governent in some ways, but those attempts could easily go very wrong.
There also remains the very real possibility that things are going to collapse a lot more, and whilst some elite people may benefit, mot run the risk of losing their grip altogether. We aint seen nothing yet.
Likeise there may well be attempts to have more 'global goernance' that may resemble a world governent in some ways, but those attempts could easily go very wrong.
elbows
Well-Known Member
They can only do the silly bonuses if banks are making money. I quite understand the levels of hate about the bailouts, but I stick to my poisiton that this does not ensure bankers will have a free ride in future. If this is just the usual sort of recession then Id agree with your position, but I think such a stance is in danger of underestimating the scale of the changes we will see in the years ahead.
I do not doubt that the relationship between bankers and politicians has been dodgy and goes a long way to explain the insanity of recent decades. But that game has broken, its consequences are too great to simply carry on with business as usual.
I do not doubt that the relationship between bankers and politicians has been dodgy and goes a long way to explain the insanity of recent decades. But that game has broken, its consequences are too great to simply carry on with business as usual.
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
The bankers fulfil a role that the people in power have handed to them, because our economic systems would not function without them. Most people these days acquiesce to this without much of a murmur, but when people did fight them more, they had the good sense - unlike you - to realise that it was the whole system that was to blame, not any given bunch of people. And by the whole system I don't just mean a 'ruling class' either. Our complicity is part of the system too.
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
Society of the Spectacle.
... until the next time. When things bounce back (which they will in one form or another) and the public once again sucks upon the teet of cheap credit and TV house pron.
I know where you are coming from, and yes I am sure this recession will be deep and long. However when things do turn around, people will be back to saying "The good times are here" and the cycle will continue. We never seem to learn from past mistakes, and there will always be a new bunch of 21 -30 year olds who want to get on the propety ladder ready for the banks to snap up and saddle with crazy mortgages.
rekil
to menny cranks
Take that Hay & Forage Grower subscribing banker lizard bastards.i rip bankers apart in my work- but cant speak about it here!!!
if they are being cunts they get it from CP's editorial outbursts and i pull no punches - i love it!!
<does starjump>
Prince Rhyus
Spokesman of King Antonio
Read the final couple of pages of Peston's book on the crisis and who is responsible. Quite interesting reading - and lays the blame at the door of the "Super-rich" who effectively belong to no country and therefore feel no sense of responsibility to those outside of their class.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
Exactly.
That's why they neednt care about the collosal fall of the US.
Increasingly the criminals will seek abode in nations with as little extradition as poss. I think Dubai is popular.
Elbows - If they are less powerful how come there is no scutiny of bailout money? In the US that lack of scrutiny was SPECIFICALLY WRITTEN INTO THE BILL. That means they are de facto above national government, which they have been in the way theyve used the IMF and World Bank in recent years to privatise (loot) global nationalised assets.
david dissadent
New Member
Au contraire. Everyone is jumping up and down blaiming the bankers. Its all the rage link.
Its all so terribly convinient. Helps to avoid looking to hard in the mirror, politicians dont have to frett too much about their former zelous advocacy of the 'light regulatory touch' and 'getting government out of the peoples way'. Voters dont have too think too long and too hard about decades of endorsing steadily more neoliberal* economics and steadily less strength in central government to deal with large corperations. It means people dont have to feel too ashamed about trying to turn there houses into wealth creation factories.
It means we dont have to think about the consaquencies of living of off the back of third world labour and an inflow of third world savings to help keep our economies afloat. We have not reached this impasse by the hand of bankers alone.
* By neoliberal I am meaning the selective application of liberal economic theory. Things like not quite doing away with all trade barriers, just the inconvinient ones like those in third world countries.
David d> I agree whole heartly with your post above.
Fir example, everyone likes to call it the free market, but it is hardly very free if you live in an African nation. Especially if you are trying to import into the EU! It's a selective use of free market ideals to raise the profits of those who benefit, aided by the governments of the countries who prosper, whilst stomping on the people in South east Asia, Africa and Latin America for example.
I've always believed if these countries where as wealthy as the west, us, the little guys on the street would proposer, as global trade would increase. I'm guessing though the oligarchs at the top though would be threatened by the competition. Hence why they prefer to pay $1 a day to workers, so they can maximise profits, whilst lobbying various governments to keep thing as they are to stifle competition and wages.
Fir example, everyone likes to call it the free market, but it is hardly very free if you live in an African nation. Especially if you are trying to import into the EU! It's a selective use of free market ideals to raise the profits of those who benefit, aided by the governments of the countries who prosper, whilst stomping on the people in South east Asia, Africa and Latin America for example.
I've always believed if these countries where as wealthy as the west, us, the little guys on the street would proposer, as global trade would increase. I'm guessing though the oligarchs at the top though would be threatened by the competition. Hence why they prefer to pay $1 a day to workers, so they can maximise profits, whilst lobbying various governments to keep thing as they are to stifle competition and wages.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Yeah people who hate the federal reserve and have been foaming at the mouth demanding a return to the gold standard for decades, were not at all happy about the bailout. But for me, complaining about the lack of scrutiny in the bill is a red herring. The damage is already done, the bailout money may well disappear into a black hole, it wont make much difference. Whose money is it anyway? Does it have any real value once the dust settles? The horse has already bolted, the long term fallout from this is where the action is. Right now attempts to prop up the system do seem perverse because it is more of the same stuff that got us into this mess in the first place, but Im not surprised or especially annoyed about it, it seems inevitable that they will try to prop up what already exists, but in the longer term will we see a big change in direction.
I never heard the precise details about the lack of scrutiny, most of the people going on about that stuff were interested in pulling on the emotions, and being so outraged that capital letters are deemed appropriate, not in dwelling on the detail. But I have a few assumptions as to why certain scrutiny, eg by congress and in the public domain, would be considered harmful to the aims of the bailout:
1. If they had to go back to congress every time they wanted to give out chunks of the bailout money to a particular entity, there would be delays and uncertainty that would have made the problem they were trying to fight much worse.
2. Too much public discussion about the entities who were in trouble and needed funding, before they were given any money, would rn the risk of speeding their collapse and requiring an even bigger bailout.
We saw a hint at what number 1 would mean when the markets went to poo when congress first rejected the bill. We saw what number 2 would mean when speculation about which banks were doomed, caused their share price to tank.
Dont get me wrong, earlier in the year I was horrified by UK plans to bailout banks in complete secret, even though I could see the practical reasons for it. In the end things got so bad in September and October that they never got to prop things up in secret.
And it is somewhat foolish of me to confidently predict who the winners and losers from this huge mess will be. For sure those in a high position will try to maintain it, but there will be some big losers, some rich individuals and rich nations will end up as paupers. I have no problem with those who are to blame losing out and being held to account, I think it will happen to some degree, not enough to feel like real justice but in the end we will end up on a different course, at least thats something. And I want to spend the journey spending as little time as possible listening to the typical US view on this stuff, it sucks, its the same thing Ive been reading on the net for years before the crisis exploded, it is one sided and I am suspicious of the agenda of those people, and despite the obvious lies and corruption I get a better picture reading the FT than the rantings of fed-haters. The prominent role that oligarchs, bankers and politicians have played in creating the mess is well understood, but the future is about far more than that, and I will bore myself to death if I restrict myself to banker hate or elite paranoia.
Fucking leave them there. The place is an over-hyped shithole. You can't even shag on the beach, ffs!
this thread says it all about urban - the ecomony has gone belly up and no one is allowed to critise bankers or use the term ' bankers' no one is allowed to use the term 'finaciers' why? because panda and bucthers have got neurotic persecution complexs who think everytime some says 'fucking bankers' that they are part of hamas or hizbollah or somthing you pair of sad fucking sell out hypocrits
You been on the sherry Brassic? You keep coming up with these peachily illiterate comments that don't hang together logically - I doubt you even know what you mean. It's like watching a small child with one of those fridge magnet sets consisting of (insulting) words and phrases and seeing what he comes up with. Oh, it's 'neurotic persecution complexs" (sic) this time.
Like the way you've seamlessly worked in Hamas and Hizbollah though. Nice achievement there.
Like the way you've seamlessly worked in Hamas and Hizbollah though. Nice achievement there.
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
I think the 'international bankers' dig was just for fun. The real reasons people think it's silly to blame the bankers are on this thread if you bothered to read it.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
I ignore all that crap to be honest. Not worth the time of day. "oh you say the bankers are ripping us off, that means you probably hate jews" - why bother engaging with such antilogic?
I was telling one guy about different intelligence agencies and their knowledge of a potential attack on the US prior to 911. I mentioned Russian, US, French, Pakistan, UK and Israeli services. Guess what: that means I hate the jews according to the drunken git. It doesnt mean I hate the Russians or the pakistanis you understand, just the Jews.
Who gives a fuck about simplistic bigots and their strawmen? bloody hell, I just wasted 2 paragraphs on them.
i cant remeber every poster on urban with a nurotic persecution complex so i apologise for omting you
well tafboy clearly understood it and you must of as one minute you understand it the next you do not still i see santa saw that you requested a brain for xmas and played the old walnut gag on you again
Yep, but old Taffboy is a tin foil hatter in the main. Most people disown his support, not encourage it - it just tends to add to the desperate paucity of your arguments. You'll be calling upon Jazz for medical advice next
Nice jokes again btw. You're on cracking form there Brassic, particularly the 'see santa saw' line. Perhaps you can channel your humorous energies into attempting to string a coherent sentence together. Just for Christmas like.
Nice jokes again btw. You're on cracking form there Brassic, particularly the 'see santa saw' line. Perhaps you can channel your humorous energies into attempting to string a coherent sentence together. Just for Christmas like.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
Yep - I dont trust international financeers or the CIA - how mad is that?
ETA: I must stand out like a sore thumb on U75 with my eco views and scepticism about global capitalism. Golly gee. Hope the hat in my cracker is made from tin foil. wibble
Being concerned about international finance and the CIA is fair enough, rattling on about them at every opportunity, clearly obsessed is another thing entirely. As is the self aggrandising belief that you've got something new to add, mistaking your hysterical, unsourced 'conclusions' as truth. The OP of this thread's a prime example - a load of evidence-light alarmist sounding bibble with a breathtakingly oversimplified bent and lots of grandiose sounding talk of 'we' and 'them'.
In short Taffboy, you're all mouth and no trousers. It'd be nice to see some substance behind your posts rather than generalised, self-deluding waffle, Maybe next year eh
In short Taffboy, you're all mouth and no trousers. It'd be nice to see some substance behind your posts rather than generalised, self-deluding waffle, Maybe next year eh
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Get a set of humour, you sour-faced lemon-sucking dog-fucker.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
It's eminently rational not to trust them.
Thing is, the thread is about your call on people to speak out against "the bankers"/international financeers [sic], it's not about whether we should or shouldn't trust them (and anybody with half a brain doesn't), and the fact is that (despite the fact that brasic believes he's the only person who is politically active in the whole wide world) people do speak out against international finance and it's institutions. What they don't do yet is speak out coherently enough.
You're much of a muchness with most people on Urban, except that you manifest that desire to feel yourself to be exceptional, to be in possession of knowledge or truth that isn't widely held, that marks out the adherent of conspiracy theory. That isn't in itself a bad thing, but it's a fast way to turn people away from any message you have.ETA: I must stand out like a sore thumb on U75 with my eco views and scepticism about global capitalism. Golly gee. Hope the hat in my cracker is made from tin foil. wibble
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