Are you against sweat shops??

[_angel_]

So hard to know where to get non sweated stuff from, on a budget (or even not on a budget) although I am on a budget.

Same with stuff like chocolate, why can't they sell more fairtrade stuff locally? I don't think many people would mind spending a bit more knowing people had been paid better for it.

 

[muckypup]

If you've nothing remotely intelligent to add, please keep out of this thread please.
Thanks.

My apologies. I mistook this for being a spoof thread

Sweat shop labour is indeed highly unethical and firmly tied into the complex web of global economics. I think Fair Trade is just one very small initial step towards solving the problem, it has its flaws. The real solution lies in restructuring global economic policy. But ofcourse way too much is at stake and I cant see this happening anytime soon.

However, if the 'peak oil' crisis does turn out to be true then the end of cheap fuel will severely cut down on global trade and that could signal the end of mass sweat shop labour. Until then Fair Trade and more importantly buying from producer owned cooperatives is the way to go.

 

[becky p]

So hard to know where to get non sweated stuff from, on a budget (or even not on a budget) although I am on a budget.

Same with stuff like chocolate, why can't they sell more fairtrade stuff locally? I don't think many people would mind spending a bit more knowing people had been paid better for it.

Yes. It is difficult to always "do the right thing" when we live in a world that is built on competition and exploitation. I was talking to a friend of mine recently who said she bought a jacket in primark for £15! Despite knowing that Primark is built on cheap labour, she justified shopping there. On the basis that at least they dont spend billions on advertising!
But does that really make it any better than shopping at Gap.
And i need some new clothes myself soon. Any suggestions?

 

[Dhimmi]

There's a danger of this developing into a modern form of imperialism. We sit comfortably in nations whose foundations are built on all shades of exploitation. Having cashed it in and changed only really when it suited the rich, we're now looking at preventing poorer nations going down this route because it suits us, the globally rich.

 

[butchersapron]

There's a danger of this developing into a modern form of imperialism. We sit comfortably in nations whose foundations are built on all shades of exploitation. Having cashed it in and changed only really when it suited the rich, we're now looking at preventing poorer nations going down this route because it suits us, the globally rich.

Exploitation of who? Who is we? Nations? What do these terms mean?

 

[Blagsta]

I think American Apparel are non-sweatshop. There's a couple of branches in London.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

AA are union-busters mind you, and their CEO is exceptionally dodgy in terms of sexual harassment. Assuming that wasn't a pisstake!

 

[Blagsta]

AA are union-busters mind you, and their CEO is exceptionally dodgy in terms of sexual harassment. Assuming that wasn't a pisstake!

I didn't know that.

 

[muckypup]

There's a danger of this developing into a modern form of imperialism.

If you're talking about Fair Trade then yes I agree, its smacks of colonism as they're still dependent on our goodwill. There really should be a level playing field, but thats not going to happen. Also, the Fair Trade Foundation has come in for a lot of critiscms for caving into Corporate demands to lower the criteria for them, and for not building on the potential Fair Trade has.

 

[nino_savatte]

good stuff we agree again!

 

[brasicritique]

Is this thread going anywhere? I don't like sweatshops and many people in this country buy goods made in sweatshops (but they complain that the same capitalist bosses are using immigration to drive down wages, while their brothers and sisters on the other side of the world are being exploited).

<Waits for some 'informed' comment about immigrants to be tacked on>

Well i am sure everyone would like to be able to have their suits handmade form organic material in savil row like you do nino so can you suggest another place where we can all go to buy clothes that are not produced usin gsweated labour? Oh i forgot the poin tof your post appears to be blemin g those with no little economic choice for the circumstances of those with no economic choice . one nil to middle urban gain

 

[brasicritique]

i agree with you for a change nino ..

it is indeed hypocritical for people to moan about immigration and buy sweat shop produce ..

how so? Please explain

the ethical position is to NOT buy sweat shop produce OR gang labour produce ( though that makes food buying hard ) ..

it makes buying 99 per cent of anything hard UNLESS YOU HAVE GOT LOADS OF ETHICAL MONEY

the ethical position is to also oppose how British industry and agriculture has used not just gang labour but cheap foreign labour

and yes they do this as the consumer wants cheap and will simply buy from abroad if they can not get cheap home grown/built british products
..

Durruti you seem to hav eover looked th efact that for many consumers there is a difference between 'wants chep ' and needs cheap this aside do you not feel that this is heading into blame the working class terrirtory

so immigration and cheap imports may be good for the cpnsumer pocket .. but they totally distort the true worth of things AND people and they are disasterous for communities both in town and country

Ok so what do we do about it in the new non flaming climate surely we need some suggestions on

1 How to produce affordable and ethical consumer goods for the many and not just the few as is the case now

2 To infulenece the market and multi nationals into paying good wages to people in sweat shops

3 infuence the manufactuerers of goods to make consumers good like clothes have a longer life. It has always baffled me why the rubber on trainers wears down quickly yet the rubber on tyres lasts longer whislt doing 70mph

Unless we can all come up with some ideas between us on such topics then we run the risk of turning into a ethical political back patters club

 

[scumbalina]

AA are union-busters mind you, and their CEO is exceptionally dodgy in terms of sexual harassment. Assuming that wasn't a pisstake!

FM...do you know much about this kind of thing or is that just a bit of trivia? I'm interested in knowing about a company called B&C European Style...if you've heard anything about them I'd be interested.

 

[durruti02]

how so? Please explain



it makes buying 99 per cent of anything hard UNLESS YOU HAVE GOT LOADS OF ETHICAL MONEY



Durruti you seem to hav eover looked th efact that for many consumers there is a difference between 'wants chep ' and needs cheap this aside do you not feel that this is heading into blame the working class terrirtory



Ok so what do we do about it in the new non flaming climate surely we need some suggestions on

1 How to produce affordable and ethical consumer goods for the many and not just the few as is the case now

2 To infulenece the market and multi nationals into paying good wages to people in sweat shops

3 infuence the manufactuerers of goods to make consumers good like clothes have a longer life. It has always baffled me why the rubber on trainers wears down quickly yet the rubber on tyres lasts longer whislt doing 70mph

Unless we can all come up with some ideas between us on such topics then we run the risk of turning into a ethical political back patters club

well for offs this thread was not about sweat shops at all but was about that to be anti neo liberal immigration is not to be anti immigrnats

BUT it seems to have sort of mived on

i except it is very hard to be ethical especially if you have no money .. and it is true there is a lot of class prejudiuce from nice ethical cconsumers mocking the primark/peacock shoppers ..

but i DO think we have personal responsabilty too and i know plenty of people who do not earn much ( including myself!) who TRY to make ethical decisions ..

i think any progresive movement would support sustainable emplyment ( employ local kids) local housing and local goods and food sourcing ..

it is AGAIN crazy that right wing ideologs like Gordon Brown bullshit about British Jobs when his neoliberalaism has been key to PFI outsourcing etc etc and it is not the LEFT who are putting these arguements

tbh i think and in my experiance that if people can make connections re food (local ) and goods (union made) they are prepared to pay a bit more

and again it is probably the lack of thnking on issue like this that has contributed to the lefts disapperence

 

[audiotech]

The '68 radicals must be falling over their zimmers at the thought that the only thing radical amongst some of the left today is shopping.

Wonder what slogans could be applied ala Paris '68 to this trend?

Btw, is shoplifting classed as ethical shopping?

 

[urbanrevolt]

Sometimes things like ethical shopping can seem like a bit of a joke and I'm not advocating it as a major way to change the world.

What might be better would be to have an anticapitalist movmeent with direct action stunts against the major exploiters, as a way of raising consciousness about these sort of issues and then funding trade unionists from say Indoenesia or Bangladesh perhpas

And of course having powerful unions here.

But I wouldn't completely dismiss such concerens- I rember a couple of good demos/ one against Gap where people went in putting out leaflets about union busting etc 'what's outrageous sweatshop wages, what's disgusting union busting' and when management tried to throw us out the shop we said right they're trying to ban peaceful protests saying everybody out, we say everybody in.

Sure it's only symbolic action but it can be a good way of showing the power of organised resistance even if only to close a shop for half an hour and create a bit of disturbance- we were nice and polite, whilst being firm about not moving and most shoppers seemed sympathetic. And the workers mainly. Plus it was a bit of a laugh. and you can raise serious stuff like sending money to trade unionists organising in Indonesia etc and try to apply the lessons- if we can take over the shops through this sort of action even if only temporarily can't we take similar action in colleges, workplaces, offices in protests and union actions?

 

[nino_savatte]

how so? Please explain



it makes buying 99 per cent of anything hard UNLESS YOU HAVE GOT LOADS OF ETHICAL MONEY



Durruti you seem to hav eover looked th efact that for many consumers there is a difference between 'wants chep ' and needs cheap this aside do you not feel that this is heading into blame the working class terrirtory



Ok so what do we do about it in the new non flaming climate surely we need some suggestions on

1 How to produce affordable and ethical consumer goods for the many and not just the few as is the case now

2 To infulenece the market and multi nationals into paying good wages to people in sweat shops

3 infuence the manufactuerers of goods to make consumers good like clothes have a longer life. It has always baffled me why the rubber on trainers wears down quickly yet the rubber on tyres lasts longer whislt doing 70mph

Unless we can all come up with some ideas between us on such topics then we run the risk of turning into a ethical political back patters club

Spoken like a true neo-liberal. There is nothing here that suggests to me that you are anything other than another selfish, greedy consumer who doesn't care who is exploited so that he may have his cheap consumer goods. The era of cheap consumer goods is near its end.

 

[audiotech]

Sometimes things like ethical shopping can seem like a bit of a joke and I'm not advocating it as a major way to change the world.

What might be better would be to have an anticapitalist movmeent with direct action stunts against the major exploiters, as a way of raising consciousness about these sort of issues and then funding trade unionists from say Indoenesia or Bangladesh perhpas

And of course having powerful unions here.

But I wouldn't completely dismiss such concerens- I rember a couple of good demos/ one against Gap where people went in putting out leaflets about union busting etc 'what's outrageous sweatshop wages, what's disgusting union busting' and when management tried to throw us out the shop we said right they're trying to ban peaceful protests saying everybody out, we say everybody in.

Sure it's only symbolic action but it can be a good way of showing the power of organised resistance even if only to close a shop for half an hour and create a bit of disturbance- we were nice and polite, whilst being firm about not moving and most shoppers seemed sympathetic. And the workers mainly. Plus it was a bit of a laugh. and you can raise serious stuff like sending money to trade unionists organising in Indonesia etc and try to apply the lessons- if we can take over the shops through this sort of action even if only temporarily can't we take similar action in colleges, workplaces, offices in protests and union actions?

Having a laugh and taking over colleges, workplaces, offices in protests and union actions are tactics to what overall strategy?

 

[brasicritique]

Spoken like a true neo-liberal. There is nothing here that suggests to me that you are anything other than another selfish, greedy consumer who doesn't care who is exploited so that he may have his cheap consumer goods. The era of cheap consumer goods is near its end.

spoken like a spolit brat with delusions of intellect your the only neo liberal i can see on these boards edna- Duruti gave a response on the subject matter to a point . But you have come up with nothing positive to say at all what a suprise.

The era of cheap consumer goods is near its end and .

Siad edna being a troll and living in fairy tale land . You are as ever so wrong

 

[brasicritique]

well for offs this thread was not about sweat shops at all but was about that to be anti neo liberal immigration is not to be anti immigrnats

BUT it seems to have sort of mived on

i except it is very hard to be ethical especially if you have no money .. and it is true there is a lot of class prejudiuce from nice ethical cconsumers mocking the primark/peacock shoppers ..

but i DO think we have personal responsabilty too and i know plenty of people who do not earn much ( including myself!) who TRY to make ethical decisions ..

i think any progresive movement would support sustainable emplyment ( employ local kids) local housing and local goods and food sourcing ..

it is AGAIN crazy that right wing ideologs like Gordon Brown bullshit about British Jobs when his neoliberalaism has been key to PFI outsourcing etc etc and it is not the LEFT who are putting these arguements

tbh i think and in my experiance that if people can make connections re food (local ) and goods (union made) they are prepared to pay a bit more

and again it is probably the lack of thnking on issue like this that has contributed to the lefts disapperence

do you not feel that this is heading into blame the working class terrirtory? and do you not see the problem with this ?

 

[Dave Mullen]

Changing tack slightly and trying to get away from the pointless personal abuse,I was watching a programme about Ghana the other night and the way that it has been exploited by multinationals.

One argument was that because the IMF removed farm subsidies the Ghanaian market was flooded with American rice which is produced with something like a 70% subsidy. This has virtually killed of the rice farmers in Ghana who are not being given a chance to compete fairly.

There was also the horrendous spectacle of the gold mine who have polluted a villages water supply and also increased instances of malaria as a result.

Unless world leaders stand up to big business the future looks decidedly pessimistic.

 

[brasicritique]

Unless world leaders stand up to big business the future looks decidedly pessimistic.

Unless we stand up to world leaders and big business the future will always look decidedly pessimistic this is due in part to the efforts of the corpratist neo liberal state to kill all forms of democracy and erode civvil liberties.We can all see what is happening the question is what are we going to do about it and where to start

 

[Dave Mullen]

Unless we stand up to world leaders and big business the future will always look decidedly pessimistic this is due in part to the efforts of the corpratist neo liberal state to kill all forms of democracy and erode civvil liberties.We can all see what is happening the question is what are we going to do about it and where to start

I agree. I think the first step is eliminating apathy unfortunately too many swallow the lies and propaganda of the neo liberals and their mouthpiece in the Capitalist media.

 

[nino_savatte]

spoken like a spolit brat with delusions of intellect your the only neo liberal i can see on these boards edna- Duruti gave a response on the subject matter to a point . But you have come up with nothing positive to say at all what a suprise.



Siad edna being a troll and living in fairy tale land . You are as ever so wrong

If only you actually had a brain in your head, eh? This is another one of the many snide, pointless posts in a catalogue of snide, pointless posts.

You have made no contribution to this thread and you have the fucking cheek to say this?

 

[nino_savatte]

Well i am sure everyone would like to be able to have their suits handmade form organic material in savil row like you do nino so can you suggest another place where we can all go to buy clothes that are not produced usin gsweated labour? Oh i forgot the poin tof your post appears to be blemin g those with no little economic choice for the circumstances of those with no economic choice . one nil to middle urban gain

Your post, as usual, makes no sense. It's just more bile from a poster who isn't as intelligent as he thinks he is. I understand your frustration but you should try and read more before you make yourself look even sillier.

 

[nino_savatte]

Unless we stand up to world leaders and big business the future will always look decidedly pessimistic this is due in part to the efforts of the corpratist neo liberal state to kill all forms of democracy and erode civvil liberties.We can all see what is happening the question is what are we going to do about it and where to start

So says the People's Poet. This is nothing but sloganeering; there is no substance to any of this.