Are the IWCA running in the locals?
- Thread starter Joey Ramone
- Start date
Nigel said:So No one in and around the IWCA is prepared to comment on this?
Dug yourselves into a left reformist trap: can't get out?
So much for open democracy!!!!!
If you insist I will comment although I'm not involved with Oxford IWCA.
Given that the IWCA is not involved in the prosecution of Phillip Pledge and the only connection the IWCA has with the case is a comment by Lee Cole on the judge's comments - not the actual case itself, the whole thing is pretty trivial.
At very worst Lee Cole has taken the judge's comments out of context - but it doesn't look that way considering that according to the report a considerable amount of canabis was not just being grown but also being stored. But then I don't know the details of the case, does anyone here know more?
Of course you are free to disagree with Lee's comments, but they strike me as reasonable.
There really isn't very much to say on this whole issue and I'm probably the only IWCA member bored enough to read through this tedious thread.
Nigel said:Unless Suburban Casual, and his position are IWCA policies I did not call the IWCA Strasserite. What I have said in the past & stick by is that they Have a strong white paternal element to their political make up.
yep .. apology .. didn't read your strasser jibe clearly enough ..
disagree with rest though .. one of their key activists in oxford is asian and the area they are most active in is pretty mixed ..
Nigel, as you're no doubt aware, the Oxford Mail is infamous for its shoddy reporting. The quote printed was not the full or only quote given by IWCA councillors -- just the only one they chose to print. The point about police priorities in targetting those growing/dealing cannabis rather than those dealing crack/heroin and the comparative destructive impact on the community was made but ignored by the Oxford Mail. As said above, the IWCA had nothing to do with the proceedings against the resident.
Re the 'strong white paternal' thing. Two out of the four IWCA councillors in Oxford are female.
Just to add -- I also think you're being disengenuous at best here. You've met many of the Oxford IWCA activists over the years and are perfectly aware that when you come on here to slag them off, what you say is complete cobblers.
Re the 'strong white paternal' thing. Two out of the four IWCA councillors in Oxford are female.
Just to add -- I also think you're being disengenuous at best here. You've met many of the Oxford IWCA activists over the years and are perfectly aware that when you come on here to slag them off, what you say is complete cobblers.
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
Excellent IWCA article on drugs:
http://www.iwca.info/cutedge/ce0004.htm
Excellent IWCA article on crime:
http://www.iwca.info/cutedge/ce0002.htm
http://www.iwca.info/cutedge/ce0004.htm
Excellent IWCA article on crime:
http://www.iwca.info/cutedge/ce0002.htm
The thing is about the IWCA, imo, is that they don't jus't do things because its radical or popular of taken from a 19th C text, they look on the ground, consult and then respond.
btw, is pretty incredible how such a small (tiny?) group are beginning to have such an influence in wider left circles; numerous people, blogs, etc are citing their approach and ideas. So many people are disullusioned with the old left and its obsessions, machinations and often duplicity, something else is definitely needed.
btw, is pretty incredible how such a small (tiny?) group are beginning to have such an influence in wider left circles; numerous people, blogs, etc are citing their approach and ideas. So many people are disullusioned with the old left and its obsessions, machinations and often duplicity, something else is definitely needed.
Fisher_Gate
Active Member
durruti02 said:
I don't think you can claim an area that is 87% white is 'pretty mixed'.
http://www.neighbourhood.statistics...0551&i=1001x1003x1004&m=0&enc=1&dsFamilyId=47
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
House Negro/Field Negro
In the context that I am using Paternal, is not in being male or even white; just going along with a steriotypical, two dimensional Chauvanistic Attitude of what you consider the 'British' Working Class' are perceived to have. Hardly any opposition towards the war in the Middle East, failing to deal with soft racism, especially against Asylum Seekers(What position has IWCA done or said against Campsfield for instance), and completely dropping any talk of Socialist ideas because it would alienate itself from the electorate.
Is the IWCA going to take a position on the Legalisation Of Cannabis.
The best way to deal with anti social crime with soft drugs.
Are they going to oppose ASBO's, Evictions, Custodial Sentences as the best way of dealing with petty criminals, or would this go against the Little Englander, Sun Reading perspective that you perceive the whole 'working class' in 'their' electorial areas have. I would say its putting the cart before the horse but I don't think that your that naive.
As for the accusation that I'm always 'slagging off' the IWCA then you know that this is untrue. I have leafleted Blackbird Leys during an election (something that I would'nt do now), argued and continue to tell people to vote IWCA in Oxford, not because I think that they are some miraculous answer for the struggle of the working class or socialism, but becuase they are the most proggressive group standing their. I also went against the policies of the Socialist Party; a group that I was and am actively involved in over Blackbird Leys Community Centre of which the IWCA's position was correct.
Sue said:
In the context that I am using Paternal, is not in being male or even white; just going along with a steriotypical, two dimensional Chauvanistic Attitude of what you consider the 'British' Working Class' are perceived to have. Hardly any opposition towards the war in the Middle East, failing to deal with soft racism, especially against Asylum Seekers(What position has IWCA done or said against Campsfield for instance), and completely dropping any talk of Socialist ideas because it would alienate itself from the electorate.
Is the IWCA going to take a position on the Legalisation Of Cannabis.
The best way to deal with anti social crime with soft drugs.
Are they going to oppose ASBO's, Evictions, Custodial Sentences as the best way of dealing with petty criminals, or would this go against the Little Englander, Sun Reading perspective that you perceive the whole 'working class' in 'their' electorial areas have. I would say its putting the cart before the horse but I don't think that your that naive.
As for the accusation that I'm always 'slagging off' the IWCA then you know that this is untrue. I have leafleted Blackbird Leys during an election (something that I would'nt do now), argued and continue to tell people to vote IWCA in Oxford, not because I think that they are some miraculous answer for the struggle of the working class or socialism, but becuase they are the most proggressive group standing their. I also went against the policies of the Socialist Party; a group that I was and am actively involved in over Blackbird Leys Community Centre of which the IWCA's position was correct.
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
Have you read the two links I posted?Nigel said:
Life really is too short. However...
Unlike other groups, the IWCA regularly goes round and actually *talks* to people to find out what issues concern them, never mind that, erm...most of us are working class ourselves...
How has the IWCA failed 'to deal with soft racism' exactly?
You're right though -- if only we'd concentrated our energies on the Middle East, it would've all been sorted out by now. Must mention that at the next branch meeting....
Have a look at the website. I think your questions are answered there.
Upthread you suggested we've become 'tin pot fascists' -- think we could maybe *just about* struggle on without your 'support'...
Nigel said:
Unlike other groups, the IWCA regularly goes round and actually *talks* to people to find out what issues concern them, never mind that, erm...most of us are working class ourselves...
Nigel said:
How has the IWCA failed 'to deal with soft racism' exactly?
You're right though -- if only we'd concentrated our energies on the Middle East, it would've all been sorted out by now. Must mention that at the next branch meeting....
Nigel said:
Have a look at the website. I think your questions are answered there.
Nigel said:
Upthread you suggested we've become 'tin pot fascists' -- think we could maybe *just about* struggle on without your 'support'...
exactamundo, the Left is not exactly in a position of strength to take on all the worlds problems:, of course it should be internationalist, but to try to respond to every world event like its some sort of competition, like the the SWP do is ridiculous and counter- productive.
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
Have Oxford IWCA turned into another bunch of tin pot fascists, or is their more to this than meets the eye?????
That is not accusing the IWCA of being anything, its a question bating an answer. Do you really want me to answer the rest of you what you said, I cannot really see the point, I've said it all before.
That is not accusing the IWCA of being anything, its a question bating an answer. Do you really want me to answer the rest of you what you said, I cannot really see the point, I've said it all before.
Charlie Drake
New Member
Nigel said:
I remember reading their manifesto - it called for its legalisation.
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
Charlie Drake said:
Which Manifesto. Have you got a website address for that, just been through Oxford IWCA & BL IWCA could'nt find anything.
I never re-called anywhere them openly saying that, but I hope that I am wrong. There was something about doctors proscribing Heroin, and posters against Crack & Heroin Dealers.
What about ASBO's
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
I keep telling you, these are worth a look on the matter:Nigel said:
Excellent IWCA article on drugs:
http://www.iwca.info/cutedge/ce0004.htm
Excellent IWCA article on crime:
http://www.iwca.info/cutedge/ce0002.htm
If you go onto www.iwca.info and click on 'manifesto'..
http://www.iwca.info/manifest.htm
Anyway, life really is too short. Have you not got papers to sell or something..?
http://www.iwca.info/manifest.htm
Anyway, life really is too short. Have you not got papers to sell or something..?
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
Heresy! Heresy! Don't you realise that what working class people need is for groups of trotskyite middle-managers, social workers, benefit-inspectors, teachers, office supervisory-grades and assorted other bossy busybody trots to descend upon their areas and jolly well tell them what to think and what to do?Sue said:
It's for their own good, after all.
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
Pushers Out
Tell us more about the survey that you took in Blackbird Leys.
I never considered myself to be be patronising or condescending towards working class people. If you could find one individual to say that I am I would be amazed.
By the way, I may have sympathies with Trotskyism but I am not
Its quite interesting that you came up with 'Drugs' on this consensous?poster342002 said:Heresy! Heresy! Don't you realise that what working class people need is for groups of trotskyite middle-managers, social workers, benefit-inspectors, teachers, office supervisory-grades and assorted other bossy busybody trots to descend upon their areas and jolly well tell them what to think and what to do?
It's for their own good, after all.
Tell us more about the survey that you took in Blackbird Leys.
I never considered myself to be be patronising or condescending towards working class people. If you could find one individual to say that I am I would be amazed.
By the way, I may have sympathies with Trotskyism but I am not
Fisher_Gate said:
fair play .. pretty white as i goes .. always felt/thought northfields/leys were more mixed ..
(not like haggerston another historic IWCA ( now HI ) area though!
.. )don't you think they should pull out straight away and go and help respect in brum?? ;-)
poster342002 said:Heresy! Heresy! Don't you realise that what working class people need is for groups of trotskyite middle-managers, social workers, benefit-inspectors, teachers, office supervisory-grades and assorted other bossy busybody trots to descend upon their areas and jolly well tell them what to think and what to do?
It's for their own good, after all.
.. it would be for their own good wouldn't it!!
Divisive Cotton
Now I just have my toy soldiers
Fisher_Gate said:
I'd disagree blackbird leys is very noticeable mixed - this is because of the nearby carplant.
Fisher_Gate
Active Member
Divisive Cotton said:
There's always been a significant afro-caribbean population since the 1960s. But the car plant is of less economic significance than its heyday in the 1970s and car workers tended to be higher earning blue collar home owners living elsewhere, whereas the Leys was originally a council estate providing Oxford with low pay lower status manual jobs such as cleaners. The asian population that moved into Oxford gravitated towards the terraced streets of East Oxford with its better location for retail outlets etc. So St Mary's ward for example has a white population of only 70% and the city average is 75%, so by comparison the Leys at 87% is less mixed.
And yet the IWCA still stood at least one black candidate at the last election in Oxford, are they still going to be accused of racism?
Joey Ramone
New Member
Oh gawd.............
Oh gawd, reading this stuff is like falling into a timewarp!!!!! I know nothing about this case but someone who grows and sells (yes, sells) drugs and had their last house firebombed would hardly be ideal neighbours!!
The real problem here is that the working class bastards are too stupid to realise the important issues. Forget about living in a rundown estate with the usual lack of facilities, forget about the increasing anti social problems – do they not know that there is war in Iraq? Or that Bush and the neo-cons want to attack Iran? These working class racists should be calling for more Asylum Seekers to be dumped in their areas. Don’t worry about resources, the immigrants can fight it out with the locals for whatever limited resources are going. That should really help the race problem.
Why do the left always side with the yobs/drug dealers/child molesters against the rest of the community? Why do the left have no support in working class areas?
Oh gawd, reading this stuff is like falling into a timewarp!!!!! I know nothing about this case but someone who grows and sells (yes, sells) drugs and had their last house firebombed would hardly be ideal neighbours!!
The real problem here is that the working class bastards are too stupid to realise the important issues. Forget about living in a rundown estate with the usual lack of facilities, forget about the increasing anti social problems – do they not know that there is war in Iraq? Or that Bush and the neo-cons want to attack Iran? These working class racists should be calling for more Asylum Seekers to be dumped in their areas. Don’t worry about resources, the immigrants can fight it out with the locals for whatever limited resources are going. That should really help the race problem.
Why do the left always side with the yobs/drug dealers/child molesters against the rest of the community? Why do the left have no support in working class areas?
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