Are literacy levels declining?
- Thread starter In Bloom
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The more miserable fact that a lot of kids are antagonised and alienated by having "literacy" forced down their throats for 11 years. With the punishment for non-achievement being more of the same, with more "support", more withdrawal lessons, more after school "clubs". The philosophy of education that says if a square peg doesn't fit in a round hole, hit it with a bigger hammer.JHE said:
mentalchik
"I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit."
reallyoldhippy said:The more miserable fact that a lot of kids are antagonised and alienated by having "literacy" forced down their throats for 11 years. With the punishment for non-achievement being more of the same, with more "support", more withdrawal lessons, more after school "clubs". The philosophy of education that says if a square peg doesn't fit in a round hole, hit it with a bigger hammer.
Surely though, being able to basically read and write is something thats essential for most people ?
How its achieved is a different subject.
spanglechick said:
Sad to say, but I disagree.
I mark work from both undergraduates and mature students, and the standard of writing is virtually always higher amongst older students. I've seen some undergrad essays that are virtually incoherent. Now, obviously that's just my fairly limited experience, but I knmow several older lecturers who are convinced that writing standards have dropped over the last couple of decades. MOreover, there are AFAIK instances of admissions tests that have remained pretty much unchanged for several decades, the results of which show a downward trend in basic literacy.
I'm of the old-fashioned school of thought on this, in that I do believe 'proper' grammar, spelling and the like are important and I've very little patience with 'alternative literacies' or whatever they're called. Of course there's nothing wrong with writing in colloquialisms or stream of consciousness or whatever, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't also know the 'correct'/traditional rules of language and write according to them when necessary. There's a time and a place for everything, as the saying goes. If writing in weird and wonderful forms of verse is your thing, then go write a book in that style (or call yourself rorymac
), but don't expect academic assignments in it to be taken very seriously!One thing I do think, though, is that literacy hasn't declined as fast, on average, as some people are making out. I think it's more noticeable today than in the past because there are far fewer purely manual jobs out there these days, and a greater proportion of people have to write as part of their occupations. Although Britain was majority-literate in the late nineteenth centure, it's fair to say that a lot of people had many of the same problems with grammar, punctuation and the like that are being discussed here.
wtfftw
roof's about to blow ♩♪♩♬ ♬♩♪♩
I don't know about in general but I certainly dont feel confident in my literacy skills. I have no idea how to format a letter (yours faithfully or yours sincerely? when? etc), I'm at undergraduate level and did English A level yet have had to buy a beginners book on punctuation. I have no idea what an adverb is (within school it seemed to be left to the german/french/spanish teachers to cover this). semicolon what? I read shedloads btw. 
Do you ever actually need to know any of the above though? The letter thing is a pain in the arse, mind, but that's down to stupidity on the part of the reader, who really gives a fuck what the letter is signed? I mean, really, what is the point?drag0n said:I don't know about in general but I certainly dont feel confident in my literacy skills. I have no idea how to format a letter (yours faithfully or yours sincerely? when? etc), I'm at undergraduate level and did English A level yet have had to buy a beginners book on punctuation. I have no idea what an adverb is (within school it seemed to be left to the german/french/spanish teachers to cover this). semicolon what? I read shedloads btw.
wtfftw
roof's about to blow ♩♪♩♬ ♬♩♪♩
In Bloom said:
A correctly formed letter would probably create a good impression.
I think I do need to know the above (well maybe not the adverbs bit). I get my coursework handed back to me saying the content is passable but my punctuation is dodgy. I'm also doing creative writing (and women's studies) and I suspect the creative aspect only goes so far....
_angel_
.
I don't know if my spelling and grammar is that terrible*, but I certainly don't understand the formal terms for things and the theory behind grammar. We were never taught much beyond nouns and adjectives. Consequently having to learn about various tenses and grammatical rules in a foreign language was very hard.
* Not that brilliant either though.
* Not that brilliant either though.
Throbbing Angel
this is no longer a place of honour
he he he
kinda relevant this
go look
http://www.conservativesintouch.com/uploaded/files/tamesidetories_com/elderley.jpg
kinda relevant this
go look
http://www.conservativesintouch.com/uploaded/files/tamesidetories_com/elderley.jpg
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
reallyoldhippy said:The more miserable fact that a lot of kids are antagonised and alienated by having "literacy" forced down their throats for 11 years. With the punishment for non-achievement being more of the same, with more "support", more withdrawal lessons, more after school "clubs". The philosophy of education that says if a square peg doesn't fit in a round hole, hit it with a bigger hammer.
Sorry - as I said, literacy for humans today is the equivalent of teaching your kids to track, hunt, kill and skin animals and other survival skills when we were hunter gatherers.
Being illiterate creates untold problems throughout life, so if you're actually saying that kids shouldn't be forced to read you're talking absolute bollocks. Literacy is a survival skill and those that don't have adequate levels of it suffer.
Ms T
Honey-coloured ramparts
drag0n said:I don't know about in general but I certainly dont feel confident in my literacy skills. I have no idea how to format a letter (yours faithfully or yours sincerely? when? etc), I'm at undergraduate level and did English A level yet have had to buy a beginners book on punctuation. I have no idea what an adverb is (within school it seemed to be left to the german/french/spanish teachers to cover this). semicolon what? I read shedloads btw.
Yours sincerely is used when you being a letter with someone's name ie Dear Mrs/Mr/Miss X. Yours faithfully is used when you begin a letter Dear Sir.
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
i was talking to someone in the third year of her english degree last night. she's doing a course about writings of the english civil war - yet despite being a month into it, she was uncertain what she was supposed to be doing. it's dispiriting that people in their final year of an english degree at one of the more prestigious british universities should find themselves at such a loss, when by that stage it should be second nature to examine a text and unearth its meaning.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Sorry if I'm coming over as angry, but this issue really gets my blood up, especially when one of the reasons so many kids today have issues with reading is partly due to 'alternative literacies' and other such rubbish...that and the method of teaching words that teaches whole words instead of word construction through phonics (which I know isn't suitable for all children, but for most kids they learn to read to a higher standard quicker and find learning new words quicker because of the way phonics teaches the sounds made.
Cos I was a single parent kid, my Ma was in the Humpty Dumpty club and taught me to read using phonics cue cards, and I had a reading age of 8 when I started school at 4 and a bit...
Cos I was a single parent kid, my Ma was in the Humpty Dumpty club and taught me to read using phonics cue cards, and I had a reading age of 8 when I started school at 4 and a bit...
drag0n said:I don't know about in general but I certainly dont feel confident in my literacy skills. I have no idea how to format a letter (yours faithfully or yours sincerely? when? etc), I'm at undergraduate level and did English A level yet have had to buy a beginners book on punctuation. I have no idea what an adverb is (within school it seemed to be left to the german/french/spanish teachers to cover this). semicolon what? I read shedloads btw.
We weren't taught adverbs, nouns or that kind of thing either as far as I can remember - we were taught creative writing (and I left school over 20 years ago).
In answer to your question - if it's Dear Sir or Sirs then it's signed 'Yours faithfully' and if it's Dear Mr/Mrs etc then it's signed 'Yours sincerely'. I learnt this from typing lessons.
Oops - I see Ms T has already replied to the question
Don't ask me the correct usage of colons -v- semi colons etc. as I have no idea! I just tend to use whichever looks right.
_angel_
.
Pickman's model said:i was talking to someone in the third year of her english degree last night. she's doing a course about writings of the english civil war - yet despite being a month into it, she was uncertain what she was supposed to be doing. it's dispiriting that people in their final year of an english degree at one of the more prestigious british universities should find themselves at such a loss, when by that stage it should be second nature to examine a text and unearth its meaning.
Tut tut. Where are your capital letters? (Put's PM in detention)
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
there seems to be an extraneous apostrophe in yr post.Maddalene said:Tut tut. Where are your capital letters? (Put's PM in detention)
puts maddalene in detention.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
trashpony said:
Oops!
In mitigation, I didn't grow up in the UK so my geography has only been fairly recently acquired. Still, poor show. I apologise unreservedly.
And of course, living in London you tend to think that anything smaller than the interior space of the M25 is a hamlet
trashpony said:I have just had someone apply to work as a freelance copywriter for my company who couldn't do basic punctuation either. When I told him this was the reason I wouldn't be using him, he put the phone down on me!
lol
My daughter (year 9) had to do an assignment last week (history IIRC) and the teacher stipulated it be done using text language. It surprised me but I haven't got a strong opinion on it. I can't even write with a biro anymore. A pen in my hands looks all wrong .. not natural. I get all sweaty when I have to sign something. It's never the same ever .. Royston McDaid doesn't look like Norman Mcforeman on a puter but it does when I write it with a dolly pen.
Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez
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