Are Lambeth Labour going to get voted back in in 2018?

Discussion in 'Brixton' started by teuchter, Feb 25, 2018.

  1. CH1

    CH1 "Red Guard"(NLYL)

    Having Matthew Bennett sandwiched between those two left wing MPs shows that Lambeth Labour - indeed national Labour - is still the past master at obfuscation, victim blaming and general tosser-ship.

    How Matthew Bennett Jeremy Corbyn and John Healey can be in the same room together is beyond me, let alone pose for promotional photo.
    Tricky Skills likes this.
  2. Southlondon

    Southlondon The river's there for a reason

    Rachel did a good thing in standing up for her principles with regards putting her constituents before her party loyalty, but she was one out of 59 councillors. They honestly don’t sit around chatting about her as if she represented a major dissident movement within the local party , because she doesn’t. She was never seen as a vocal left winger arguing against mainstream thought, she simply took herself outside the whip so she could support the residents in her ward against change delivered from above. That’s an admirable stance, but ultimately Lambeth Labour is larger and more active than its ever been. It’s highly effective election machine will crank up, and independent candidates along with rival parties will be facing a far larger campaign than they have in the past. The best place for genuine left wingers wanting to bring Lambeth Labour in line with the national party is inside the party where Corbyn supporters can out vote progress supporters in the future if we continue to recruit at the rate we are so far. Rachel will become a local hero to a localised part of the Borough, but In the end an irrelevance no matter how justified her stance.
    Where I live in the North of the Borough, most people including activists have never heard of her. Unfortunately the same would go for the cressingham gardens regen. It’s a massive Borough and what goes on in Herne hill is not news for most voters in Waterloo, Vauxhall or Norwood. Labour will target it’s support base as it always does, many tenants are extremely happy with their newly refurbished flats, excellent schools, green flag status parks, the state-of-the-art library in Clapham etc etc, and Labour will continue to harvest enough votes as they did last time, to secure a massive majority. I believe they only way to change the direction Lambeth Council have taken in the past is to apply pressure from within. The majority of the current councillors are right wing, but very few are actually ideological progress supporters. We’re a whisker away from pulling the local parties away and Getting then in line behind Corbyn. Unfortunately the post Corbyn surge in Lambeth was matched by a right wing push for members meaning there is still all to fight for within the party.
  3. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    I don't find this clear at all.

    Your arguing to get rid of what you call right wing Cllrs with local parties coming under control of Corbyn supporters. Yet you argue the record of Labour in Lambeth under control of these right wing Cllrs is a good one.

    My experience of Council tenants in my area is that they will vote Labour but aren't pleased at all with this administration. In Loughborough Estate which is near me they have just finished years long battle with Council. Who were trying to rid of the EMB. Whilst tenants aren't that happy with the EMB they supported the EMB as they didn't trust a Labour Council with direct control of the estate.

    On recent works on Council housing. These have been of variable quality. I know I'm a Council tenant.

    The green flag parks. This is straight out of the Councils campaign literature. In LJ an issue has been lack of ongoing maintenance of open spaces. They have got a lot worse. If it wasn't for efforts of local unpaid volunteers they would be in worse state.

    I could go on. The adventure playground in LJ is another ongoing issue ( see thread here).

    I don't think my experience of my local area is that different to what is happening in other parts of the borough. From talking to people I know.

    You implication that Rachel can be written off as a political irrelevance just shows what a machine minded politico you come across as. This is one reason why people don't want to be in politics.

    I think Rachel changed over time. No she never was left winger. But imo she was actually on the right track. Not that she planned it. She sensed from her close involvement with local community and her large amount of casework that the Progress/ New Labour way of doing things no longer worked. That her constituents felt increasingly alienated by the Third Way. And it's important to remember that Cold harbour Ward is a poor ward. It is working class despite what's happened to central Brixton.

    So what I'm saying is that she , unconsciously, had her finger on the pulse. The Corbyn election was a surprise. Him doing well at polls was surprise to mainstream media. Rachel sensed that Labour was out of touch before this. Her tragedy is that she was pushed out of Labour just at this time. She is just the sort of Cllr that Corbyn supporters should support. Not dismiss as political irrelevance. Which shows your lack of understanding of politics on a human level.

    Btw you are factually wrong. She didn't take herself out of the whip. Why do you say this when you must know it's not true? She was expelled for six months from Labour group. When that ended she could not face having to go through a public recantation of her views. That's what she told me the whip said she had to do. Go in front of another meeting and recant.

    She would have preferred to stay as backbench Labour Cllr. She never went against the budget or main manifesto issues.
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2018
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  4. BusLanes

    BusLanes Pedestrian

    Loads of chatter out on streets bad about the Labour Council from Labour members / voters- but that doesn't mean they won't hold their noses and vote red all the same, or not vote at all.
  5. CH1

    CH1 "Red Guard"(NLYL)

    Had she wanted to create an upset she could have defect to the Greens - at the time she was suspended. The fact she hasn't suggests she has issues about certain aspects of Lambeth Labour group policy - but not prepared to traumatically jump to a different party.

    Which in my view is a pity, because it might have led to a larger,more effective progressive opposition.
  6. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    I think she has done the right thing standing as an independent Labour candidate.

    If she had joined Greens the Lambeth Labour would have said she never was truly Labour. Plus her stance on road closures means imo that she can't really be in Greens. Would make the Greens look a bit stupid.

    Notice how are Labour party poster SouthLondon above spends time saying she is political irrelevance without mentioning she is standing. What SouthLondon is saying in post is likely the line that Lambeth Labour will peddle.

    The line that she took herself out of the Labour whip and is not relevant politically now.
  7. Southlondon

    Southlondon The river's there for a reason

    I spoke as a council tenant when I said the vast majority of people on my esteere very happy with the enhanced decent homes standard work. Mine is excellent and so are my neighbours. The parks might be held together by volunteers, but they are still high standard, so to most voters up my end they appear just as well kept as they were before. Our local library is still open and vibrant and full of happy users. As i said it’s a large Borough and most people only look around their locality as their home area and base their vote on that
    When Heywood voted against the party she was in effect walking away from the whip. She knew what she was doing and what would result. I agree with her however as i said she then lost any ability to influence from within. She can be written off not because I’m a machine minded whatever it was you called me, but because the local party is far larger than it was at the last election. - Vauxhall now -Vauxhall’s alone has doubled its membership, which means more canvassers on the streets, and as I pointed out, what might be disatisfaction in one part of the constituency, isn’t the case universally. There is no political party that would support an independent candidate at the expense of their own one, and a Labour Government will make a real difference to my life so I have no intention of jumping ship to support one local councillor who had been good in some areas, but was never a Corbyn supporter nor a left winger. At the last election coldharbour was deemed safe so the activists went to other wards. If this time they feel it’s wobbling they will flood it with local activists. I live on the 2nd largest estate in Lambeth, with over 20% living in poverty, and I can tell you support for Labour is stronger than I’ve ever known it.The local councillors for all their faults are a hell of a lot better than the Tory or liberal alternative would be. I have lived and worked in Tory Boroughs and I can tell you there is far worse than a Labour vouncil. I can’t cplaon about our parks. And when I come to brockwrll park for events my first being the RAR carnival my last being the country fair, I love that too and ca see it’s well looked after like my parks are. All schools in Lambeth are good as are housing services ( I can only speak for my part of the Borough for that. ). If more left leaning people join labour rather than leaving it to right wing Corbyn-stoppers, it can become a party more representative of its leadership.
    And as for people being put off politics - the Labour Party has never had so many members, and locally it’s one of the biggest jumps in the country. Kate massively increased her majority in the general despite it being a Lib Dem target seat, and wish what you want but the locals will confirm Lambeth as being solidly behind Labour again so realistically change will have to come from within .
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
  8. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    Southlondon when you talk about "change from within" what changes would you like to see, and how would they be brought about?
  9. Southlondon

    Southlondon The river's there for a reason

    I have t got time at moment to go into detail, but I’d like the local party to reflect the Make up of the National Party. I’m of the Corbyn wing, so estate ballots before regeneration is obviously one. Up this end I joined the fight to prevent the transfer of a neighbouring estate againstvthe majority of residents wishes. I found it a travesty to have to fight against my own local councillors. But realistically the only way to try to challenge them was from within the party . Labour get over half of all the votes cast in my ward, so voting for an alternative party evennifvthere was a socialist alternative is fruitless.
  10. Southlondon

    Southlondon The river's there for a reason

    my point is that taking Lambeth to be a one party state with no viable challengers then I think socialists that want change in Lambeth are best off fighting from within , rather than compromising beliefs still further to vote for liberals ( a totally wasted vote at both the general and the last locals), or the greens. For all the pockets of incompetence across the Borough, there are still many satisfied residents, - enough to carry them over the line. That was my point.
  11. Tricky Skills

    Tricky Skills Well-Known Member

    But that's not what happened, is it?

    Cllr Heywood spoke for her residents at the library campaign held in Windrush Square. She didn't vote against the party.

    The Progress machine was so angry that she was sticking up for her residents that it made the move to withdraw the whip. She didn't have the chance to vote against party policy - Progress pulled this option away from her.
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  12. Tricky Skills

    Tricky Skills Well-Known Member

    Plus to add that Cllr Heywood didn't resign her Labour party membership. She deliberately took the title of 'independent Labour,' the same as Cllr Kingsley Abrams when Progress tried to frame him.

    It would have been all to easy to sign up as a Green. But Cllr Heywood is a proud Labour party member. She has been for decades. She has tried to work within the party, much as you have argued for Southlondon.

    In the end she was given no choice. Three more Progress ducks were chosen for Coldharbour. The party de-selected her.

    How does your 'change from within' stance work when Progress are paranoid about anyone who doesn't have a poster of Tony Blair on their bedroom wall? You try and remain in the party, but they will work as a machine to boot you out.

    Personal experience talking here...
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  13. Southlondon

    Southlondon The river's there for a reason

    Kingsley was a good Socialist and an example of how the party worked to suppress the left successfully up until corbyn. The way the local party will change is the same way it’s chabged across the country, from greater numbers of lefty’s joining and changing the ideological make up of the party. To me that’s the best way of influencing progressive change in the Borough. There is no way any rival party has a hope in hell of raising an effective opposition through competing with it. The local labour parties have had a huge influx of new activists, and that along with the advantage of incumbency - every bit of councillor casework is a potential voter won over, and the fact that the greens and the Lib Dem’s are unlikely to form a working pact, and just as Kate’s hugely increased majority at the last election came through despite the Brexit situation, so Too will a decisive labour victory in Lambeth. That means another term of a council without an effective opposition and more progress ideology unless it’s challellenged from within
  14. Tricky Skills

    Tricky Skills Well-Known Member

    As for the 'crime' of voting against the party? It sums up all that wrong is wrong with poxy party politics - especially at this level of local government.

    We elect Cllr's to represent residents, and not their party. Internal debate is good for democracy. It's hilarious that Progress can't handle any internal criticism when it has 59 out of 63 Cllr's. It reduces the role of ward Cllr's to voting fodder.

    Cabinet is all powerful at this level. And even then there are cliques within the Progress Cabinet. Whatever less than half a dozen Cllr's say gets pushed through as Lambeth Labour policy.

    Change from within, you say?

    What, and look like Jimbo?

    No thanks.
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  15. Tricky Skills

    Tricky Skills Well-Known Member

    Of course they don't. It will be another Progress landslide, for all the reasons you have stated.

    Which is no reason for propping up a shit system.

    Cllr Scott Ainslie has done a decent one man show of shining a light on how Progress runs Lambeth.

    More of the same, please.
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  16. happyshopper

    happyshopper Well-Known Member

    Although she was easily re-elected, the Vauxhall result was significantly worse for Labour than in any other comparable London constituency.
    Gramsci likes this.
  17. Tricky Skills

    Tricky Skills Well-Known Member

    And despite half of the CLP not out door knocking for her. You should talk to Kate about what it is like trying to "change the party from within."

    *although her BONKERS Brexit position probably deserved the response tbh*
    BusLanes and Gramsci like this.
  18. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    Hopefully not, given her support for the anti-pedestrian & cyclist lobby, and her help in scuppering efforts to reduce air pollution.
    Gramsci likes this.
  19. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    As you and I know the Greens went quiet when there was the furore over the road closures. One would have thought they would have supported them. Greens in Lambeth are quick to criticize Council on air pollution. But when it came down to road closures the Greens sat on the fence and cynically let the New Labour administration take the flack. I was not impressed.
  20. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    Are you and Ainslie still banned from joining the party?

    You are right the party deselected her.

    Even if she had somehow got back into the Labour group I wonder if she would have been reselected.
  21. Tricky Skills

    Tricky Skills Well-Known Member

    I received a two year ban after posting up this story to Buzz.

    I submitted a Subject Access Request to the Labour party. After much delay it returned an email exchange between Vauxhall CLP and Labour party HQ.

    It included the quote from a redacted Vauxhall Labour official:

    "What can we do to keep this one out?"

    Labour HQ responded:

    "Don't worry - we are already on to this one."

    I'm not sure that I want to join a party that acts like twats.
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  22. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    Ok. I think I've been harsh. Reading your recent posts. You aren't machine politico. I take that back. You are clearly trying a way to move the Labour party back to being a socialist party. And doing that in difficult circumstances in Lambeth.

    Also London wide. Reading Evening Standard today. Big time they are trying to smear Corbyn and Momentum. Hard left on politics boards here also are criticising Corbyn. Which make for imo depressing reading.Bit of a reality check for me.

    The left turn in Labour party is still fragile. Morning Star has been right imo. This is the time to rally around Corbyn. Anti Semiticism smears are from the right. It's not about anti Semiticism imo its about getting rid of Corbyn and the turn to the left in the party.

    However as Tricky Skills local Cllrs are thereto represent there communities first. I think being a local Cllr is much underrated position. They are , if they are any good, more intimately related to there communities than MPs. Why it gets personal. I am fully aware Rachel isn't a lefty. But then my experience of the Labour party is that it's not that ideological. ( Which imo is a weakness). Sticking up for your working class community and following the Progress line ended up being to much for Rachel. Understandably. She couldn't do both.
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
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  23. CH1

    CH1 "Red Guard"(NLYL)

    I took that to be a pre-emptive attack on Wandsworth Labour - seems to indicate the Wandsworth Tories are edgy (but not in a good way).
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  24. Southlondon

    Southlondon The river's there for a reason

    I have fought within the party for over 40 years along with many others, and at last we have a leader I value and hope will overcome the all out assaults from the Tory/liberal media and become prime minister.
    You are wrong about party’s - when you canvass you discover just how tribal most people are when it comes to voting. I guarantee that the majority of voters do not even know the name of their councillor unless they have conducted case work for them, they vote for the party. The floaters are small in number
  25. Southlondon

    Southlondon The river's there for a reason

    They are there to represent their constituents yes, but also have opted to join a party, which in turn has covered all expenses and provided volunteer activists to ensure the defeat of their opponents. That’s why I believe it’s imperative we fight from within the party to force it round to a more working class resident focus, and to allow for minority positions to be held by individual councillors without the removal of the whip
    You are spot on about the assaults on Corbyn, and sad to see leftish keyboard warriors on here joining the detractors and thus aiding the Tory/lindems
    Gramsci likes this.
  26. Southlondon

    Southlondon The river's there for a reason

    Why on earth would she want to leave labour and join the greens? She is a social democrat not a green. Totally different politics. I’m a socialist but should the Labour Party ever disappear, I can’t possibly imagine wing able to reconcile my ideological beliefs with the Green Party. Lots of respect for Peter Tatchel - a great and brave campaigner,but I could never understand why he jumped into the greens
  27. Southlondon

    Southlondon The river's there for a reason

    You choose not to fight to be in the party. That’s cool, we have over half a million people that do, including many others that were suspended like myself. I see potential to get a Corbyn-led Government, which will be a battle but if it comes about life for me and other working class people will improve immeasurably so I choose to contribute towards that goal. You don’t which is cool. The real world isn’t in these forums or in party meetings, however debate is important , but we have to take that debate beyond the chattering lefty’s and keyboard moaners, and see being part of a political party as an important aid to that end.
  28. Southlondon

    Southlondon The river's there for a reason

    The greens - like the Labour Party are a wide coalition of ideals. Some great Socialists amongst them, but equally I’ve met some incredibly middle class years that wouldn’t seem out of place in a liberal meeting. They sure as hell aren’t left wing socialists
  29. Tricky Skills

    Tricky Skills Well-Known Member

    Absolute bollocks.

    I chose to fight to be in the party. That was 'cool.' I appealed against my two year ban - a lengthy process that went on for almost a year itself with plenty of stress and time taken in preparing the case. That wasn't so cool.

    My Progress Cllr Alex Bigham and the Progress whip Cllr Paul Gadsby did all that they could to keep me out.

    I would have loved to take the debate beyond the "keyboard moaners' but the arseholes wouldn't let me. My Subject Access Request was quite clear that Bigham and Gadsby would do everything they possibly could to keep me out of the party.
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  30. Tricky Skills

    Tricky Skills Well-Known Member

    This is shifty - publishing a VOTE FOR ME puff piece on the eve of purdah.
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