Are "fucked up" people more likely to be religious?

[camouflage]

I was thinking about the role of religion in my life and some of the depression/OCD/bullying about my sexuality and behaviour/fucked up home life which I endured when I was younger, and how it sorta got me into religion. I'm religious now because despite everything I do believe it has helped me regain the strength I have inside me. I was wondering therefore, whether being fucked up inside makes people more likely to be religious, and whether most people who are religious have been through some sort of shit. I'm not saying that i don't believe in G-d or anything like that but it's something to think about isn't it?

Ive certainly met some very mentally fucked up atheists, so I'm not saying its like an absolute rule or anything, but what I'm wondering is whether in general, it is more likely?

I would say yes, definately. The most fucked up people and societies are deeply religious. Maybe when rationality can't work for you, you're only option is to embrace irrationality.

Alot of fucked-up athiests are probably religious fallout. Balanced, mostly happy people probably don't take religion too seriously, it's more a cultural element they just get on with (christenings and church weddings) if they're involved at all.

 

[frogwoman]

Nah, I don't think I'm fucked up because I'm religious, or was religious until recently. I think the reason I've been fucked up (and everyone is to an extent) is because I used religion as a means, and this was not the only one I used, to deny my problems existed or to pretend that I had got over everything.

 

[story]

i think it was 99% me .... but on the face of it, it could sort of look like you're saying that non-religious feeling = fuckedupness and you're "better now".

that's fine if you were only talking about you and your personal experience, but I don't think it necessarily applies to anyone else at all. In fact, I could write a post very similar to yours but reversed. Except I'm still a bit fucked-up.

So now it's only 1% annoying... phew!

I wasn't equating anytihg with anything - only (asyou recognise) outlining my own experience.

When I was fucked up, I was anti-religion.

Now I'm mostly better, I find that I am not anti-religiousness.

But I knwo that there are others (specially those who come from a fucked-up religious backgorund) who have made the same journey in the opposite direction.

I suppose it really comes down to semantics, again - what do we mean when we say "religious" and "relgion"...?

 

[Julie]

I was wondering therefore, whether being fucked up inside makes people more likely to be religious

I think being 'fucked up' encourages people to pursue religion, drugs, sex, gambling, sport, therapy, disordered eating, self-harming (e.g. cutting), etc. That is, we engage in a variety of behaviours (whatever takes our fancy) that in the short-term, and/or longer-term, relieves our fuckedupedness

 

[Jonti]

I'm not aware of any evidence that "fucked up" people are more likely to be religious. If anything, the evidence points the other way, for religious people have a significantly longer life expectancy than atheists. That would seem to indicate that the religious (as a very broad generalisation) are generally happier and less stressed. And so they should be! They have all the answers and know that God loves them. That must be a great comfort and support.

That said, I think it is a very difficult question. For example, a lifelong supply of pharmaceutical grade heroin can do wonders for life expectancy. But most folks would consider even such a fortunate heroin addict to be a tad "fucked up". I'd see the opiate of the masses (that's religion, of course) in much the same light.

My guess would be that generally, a person's political or religious views do not correlate at all well with neurotic or psychotic disorders. There's probably been some worthwhile research done on the question. I wonder if anyone has a link or some pointers to that kind of material?

 

[frogwoman]

*bump*

I just found this thread, I've been meaning to revisit it for a while and it's a bit painful seeing how tortured I was.

I've been getting back into religious stuff a bit recently (although I doubt I'll ever be as religious as I used to be). Not sure why, I always meant to get back into it but a lot of it seems completely illogical, although I never wanted to leave it completely like I ended up doing, for various reasons. The reason I stopped believing was because it was too difficult both emotionally and practically for a number of reasons, especially because I had a lot of mental health problems and it wasn't helping. The whole Israel thing as well, really didn't help, although these days I feel a lot less angry about that and I think that things have begun to change a bit in various ways.

And the idea of god who created the world and goes around damning sin and rewarding the "righteous" isn't really a concept I can really believe in that much any more. Especially when you look at history and the fact that if you're looking at it that way it seems to make fuck all sense. I do want to keep the traditions up though because I feel quite emotionally attached to them but for a long time I felt that I could not because of various things and it sucks. I still don't know if there's a god, I always wanted to believe but it is very difficult with all the suffering that goes on in the world.

Basically I think religion is one of those things that can be bad if people go too crazy about it, a bit like how some people can do drugs at a party and be fine but other people could take drugs every day and get completely fucked up.

Sorry for resurrecting a 5 year old thread lol I just wanted to add a sort of update

 

[Ash Mahay]

I think there is a grain of truth in the premise, but less so than there used to be. I believe there is actually a "faith gene", for want of a better description & I do think those with the gene, & screwed up lives are more open to religion, although increasingly that religion is becoming "isms".

When it was uttered that god is dead and man has killed him I think its save to say we were witnessing sciences murder of religion and it has become increasingly hard for people to keep their believe, based only on faith, when what they have faith in has been attacked so badly & if religion was the opium of the masses, with its primary dealer dead, the public needed new drugs & often found them in "isms" (we all know how Hitler and his teutonic knights of the SS tried to cash in on this) & I do think these days you find a lot of dogma, cognative dissonance, & leaps of faith amongst the hardcore elements of many "isms", so yes, I think many troubled people found religion a comfort, or a staff, but I think today the same can be said about many atheist who worship their own new gods.

 

[frogwoman]

mate NOBODY in my family is religious so fuck knows where i got it from. my mum refused to do confirmation at the age of 12 when every other child was doin it because she did not believe in god/jesus, (although i think her parents believed) my grandma is a confirmed atheist/self hating jew who once told me that David Irving had a point and "there's no business like shoah business" my dad isn't a self hating jew, but was brought up by my grandma who not only never celebrated any jewish holidays, but also never celebrated Christmas or anything else, and forced him to do a bar mitzvah while slagging it off the whole time. No wonder I am so fucked up when it comes to religion, I converted to Judaism in my teens but keeping up the lifestyle was a challenge to say the least

I always said I'd get back into it and it would be nice to keep up the traditions. I'm just so crap though

 

[8ball]

Froggy - out of interest, why is it you believe there's a God, and what sort of thing is he/she/it?

(promise I'm not about to go Dawkins on you - am just interested)

 

[frogwoman]

Froggy - out of interest, why is it you believe there's a God, and what sort of thing is he/she/it?

(promise I'm not about to go Dawkins on you - am just interested)

honestly mate i don't know whether there's a god or not - there probably isn't that's what i'm trying to work out.

i used to believe in god because basically i had a few religious experiences in my teens and i found that it was a lot of comfort to me etc.

nowadays i don't really believe but i still feel a bit attached to religion if you know what I mean.

 

[camouflage]

I was thinking about the role of religion in my life and some of the depression/OCD/bullying about my sexuality and behaviour/fucked up home life which I endured when I was younger, and how it sorta got me into religion. I'm religious now because despite everything I do believe it has helped me regain the strength I have inside me. I was wondering therefore, whether being fucked up inside makes people more likely to be religious, and whether most people who are religious have been through some sort of shit. I'm not saying that i don't believe in G-d or anything like that but it's something to think about isn't it?

Ive certainly met some very mentally fucked up atheists, so I'm not saying its like an absolute rule or anything, but what I'm wondering is whether in general, it is more likely?

Frankly, I take it as given that Religion is for the Fucked-Up. But bear in mind it has been said that history itself is the autobiography of a madman.

In sum, we are all fucked-up by default.

 

[8ball]

honestly mate i don't know whether there's a god or not - there probably isn't that's what i'm trying to work out.

So which particular elements of religion are you following if you think there 'probably isn't' a God. Is it the ritual/cultural elements? That must feel a bit disconnected if you don't really believe in the thing that's meant to be the main anchor for them.

 

[frogwoman]

So which particular elements of religion are you following if you think there 'probably isn't' a God. Is it the ritual/cultural elements? That must feel a bit disconnected if you don't really believe in the thing that's meant to be the main anchor for them.

I aint followed it at all really in years (ie not since the op was written really) and i dunno whether to try and get back into it,like i always said i would one day. I want to and I'd like to believe again but probably not in the same way.

 

[mk12]

You're right, it doesn't My denomination certainly does not.

I do have to admit though, over the last few weeks I have been having serious doubts, not over the fact that I think its harmful as I think it's helped me alot over the years and given me a lot of strength, I dont think its harmful at all, it's just that I cant help thinking that if G-d is all good etc then why the hell does he make good people, suffer for no reason, and im not talking about me, im talking about stuff like my friend's mum who died of cancer, who was one of the most amazing people I have ever come across, why do people get ill when theyve not done anything wrong? If he really is an all loving powerful being then why would he invent things like cancer and give them to people who don't deserve it?

I'd be grateful if someone could help me with this because Im having serious issues about religion at the moment, I don't want to stop believing in G-d because it has really helped me over the years, but if anyone can give me a proper explanation of this I'd be really grateful. I am having SERIOUS doubts about whether G-d and religion is real or not and whether I can carry on believing in something which isn't making any kind of sense to me at the moment. I'm sure it will make sense to me again at some point but it doesn't at the moment and I need someone to give an explanation to me I can be comfortable with, i mean why the fuck, for instance, do people get alzheimer's disease, or parkinson's disease, what the fuck is that all about, my friend's grandma has been suffering for like 20 years with these conditions, and it seems a bit awful, and a bit wrong, to talk about an all loving g-d when this has happened for no reason at all you know? This is really difficult for me to write tbh, because I have always viewed G-d as what got me through some most difficult times, but I am having real trouble sustaining my belief in him, real trouble, and I don't know what the hell to do, if anyone can give me a justification of his existence I'd be so grateful.

And I don't want people to start coming on and saying "oh i told you so" blah blah blah, I just need to get this out because it's just been one of the things which has been bothering me, I'm finding it really hard to believe that G-d is a benevolent being any more.

It seems to me that if God does exist, then he is a bastard. Hitchens is good on this point.

 

[Jon-of-arc]

*bump*

I just found this thread, I've been meaning to revisit it for a while and it's a bit painful seeing how tortured I was.

I've been getting back into religious stuff a bit recently (although I doubt I'll ever be as religious as I used to be). Not sure why, I always meant to get back into it but a lot of it seems completely illogical, although I never wanted to leave it completely like I ended up doing, for various reasons. The reason I stopped believing was because it was too difficult both emotionally and practically for a number of reasons, especially because I had a lot of mental health problems and it wasn't helping. The whole Israel thing as well, really didn't help, although these days I feel a lot less angry about that and I think that things have begun to change a bit in various ways.

And the idea of god who created the world and goes around damning sin and rewarding the "righteous" isn't really a concept I can really believe in that much any more. Especially when you look at history and the fact that if you're looking at it that way it seems to make fuck all sense. I do want to keep the traditions up though because I feel quite emotionally attached to them but for a long time I felt that I could not because of various things and it sucks. I still don't know if there's a god, I always wanted to believe but it is very difficult with all the suffering that goes on in the world.

Basically I think religion is one of those things that can be bad if people go too crazy about it, a bit like how some people can do drugs at a party and be fine but other people could take drugs every day and get completely fucked up.

Sorry for resurrecting a 5 year old thread lol I just wanted to add a sort of update

You should read the believers, by zoe heller.

 

[kabbes]

Ooooh, I can feel a mystic prediction coming on:

Now you've bumped this thread, froggy, people aren't going to read beyond the first post, won't notice the date and will post as if you still believe now what you believed then.

 

[frogwoman]

yeah, i don't see any more how religious jews (or anyone else for that matter) can believe that God did all the things he's supposed to have done in the bible (or that this is "divinely inspired") and still be seen as a good god, especially when you look at the modern day and events such as tsunamis, earthquakes and the like. I suppose I'd rather thik that God is a bit of a cunt a lot of the time and good the rest of the time although this would probably be a heresy.

 

[8ball]

I suppose I'd rather thik that God is a bit of a cunt a lot of the time and good the rest of the time although this would probably be a heresy.

Is that actually more comforting than a universe with no God at all?

 

[frogwoman]

Is that actually more comforting than a universe with no God at all?

No.

 

[Greebo]

yeah, i don't see any more how religious jews (or anyone else for that matter) can believe that God did all the things he's supposed to have done in the bible (or that this is "divinely inspired") and still be seen as a good god, especially when you look at the modern day and events such as tsunamis, earthquakes and the like. I suppose I'd rather think that God is a bit of a cunt a lot of the time and good the rest of the time although this would probably be a heresy.

My gods aren't yours, and my path is nothing like yours frogwoman, but as I understand it humans shape and distort something which is too big for them to understand if they try looking straight at it. They make it smaller and simpler, because that's what they want. And they try to make it reasonable, because they need a reason for the uncontrollable unpredictable things which happen to them. But it never quite works if you try to take a closer look.

Add in the time delay between when the early perceptions of gods (for want of a better word) were experienced, then later recorded, then edited, and modern times and you can't avoid even more distortion and information loss creeping in. It sometimes seems to me that the gods are trying to be what they were made into centuries ago and struggle to understand that humans have moved on.

 

[Greebo]

Is that actually more comforting than a universe with no God at all?

To me, sometimes yes. It's nice to be able to blame something else. Immature and probably deluded, but still comforting at times.

 

[Vortex147]

I was thinking about the role of religion in my life and some of the depression/OCD/bullying about my sexuality and behaviour/fucked up home life which I endured when I was younger, and how it sorta got me into religion. I'm religious now because despite everything I do believe it has helped me regain the strength I have inside me. I was wondering therefore, whether being fucked up inside makes people more likely to be religious, and whether most people who are religious have been through some sort of shit. I'm not saying that i don't believe in G-d or anything like that but it's something to think about isn't it?

Ive certainly met some very mentally fucked up atheists, so I'm not saying its like an absolute rule or anything, but what I'm wondering is whether in general, it is more likely?

I believe yes. Fucked up people have damaged self esteem and are delusional and that's about ideal profile for becoming religious. But far from that that you can generalize something from it. Some fucked up people become atheist, some non fucked up become religious, and so on all combinations possible.

Sure religion can help to that people, if they don't fall in religious fundamentalism, after which they are fucked up forever.

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

I'd say that "fucked up" (as you so eloquently put it ;-) ) people are more vulnerable to being roped in to a religion by the evangelistic type who will know how to spot a mentally fragile and vulnerable person who will be more open to suggestions and other manipulations, not that they all act with some bad intentions but I've seen some bad shit come out of people good intentions, for the "fucked up" the call to religion with its dogma and certainties is certainly an appealing refuge in the uncontrollable sea of chaos that life is.
Never happened to me, but I met a very nice con man when when my head was really fucked up, luckily it only cost me some money.

Ooooh, I can feel a mystic prediction coming on:

Now you've bumped this thread, froggy, people aren't going to read beyond the first post, won't notice the date and will post as if you still believe now what you believed then.

i checked the date but thought I'd reply to the OP anyway

 

[Manter]

I aint followed it at all really in years (ie not since the op was written really) and i dunno whether to try and get back into it,like i always said i would one day. I want to and I'd like to believe again but probably not in the same way.

I am a very ex Catholic (and can rant for hours about organised religion) but do still find churches very comforting, especially if I am very stressed or unhappy. I go and sit in a building with candles for a bit and I'm chilled out*. Go figure. If you have experienced some sort of comfort from religion in the past, I think its almost a Pavlov's dog thing- some bit of your brain remembers the comfort and tries to come to the front.

*unless a priest tries to talk to me, especially if they call me 'my child'. Grrrr