Are all BNP voters racist
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The Black Hand
Unclean
Why do you lie about what I think about an issue?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Well the fact tbaldwin managed to decipher it as did durti says all there is to say about your own rather obvious intellectual failings really
They probably both imbibe as much sauce as you do, so understand pissheadese.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Roll your eyes all you like. It doesn't change the fact that your mate balders talked shit and you agreed with him.
Or perhaps you were rolling your eyes at yourself for being a soapy cunt?
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Because you said it, you numpty. If you didn't mean it, then say so, rather than say I was lying.
The Black Hand
Unclean
COS You have misinterpreted what I said. I said 'there are some who say we have to treat these wankers seriously'. Which IS plural and refers to the whole BNP.
YOU then interpret what I said as referring to this type of opinion from erikson in the Singular, and saying I wouldn't treat the onnoxious fascist belief in question (misogynist BNP crap) seriously. That is not true at all.
Every single shite BNP opinion is crap, BUT I was saying there are some who say they deserve political respect. This is bullshit, and the evidence is clear.
SO why do you not think about what is being written a bit more. You counterposed something (a tangent) which I didn't imply at all, it was entirely in your projection... I appreciate the 'lying' accusation was perhaps too strong, I will go with genuine misinterpretation, but given the amount of shite and lies you know are aimed at me it is perhaps somewhat understandable if i get agitated at a crass accusation.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Fucks sake Attica, grrr Anyway, you can stay here grouching and fucking murmering as long as you like if you want. It makes no difference.
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When I first joined the boards 2 nearly 3 years ago, there used to be an active interest in what was happening on the boards generally. Yeah, P&P used to be pretty elite in themselves - but at least some of the principal posters used to get involved in the other forums e.g. General.
What I fail to fucking understand is the projectory of some of the threads in General atm. If you lot can't get involved on your own fucking choice of board, what hope is there that you'll be doing it in real life. I mentioned the Gypsies threads earlier - and fair play - there hasn't been much movement on those threads in recent days.
But racism has raised its head again over the last few days. And you know what, I reckon there's a load of posters that don't post much in P&P for obvious reasons but have a wee look and will stick their heads above the parapet in General - they have done and good on them.
Then I look at this thread http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=7323610&posted=1#post7323610
Fucks sake - I remember back to a couple of years ago when that kind of thread would have been watched like a hawk, and everyone descend on a far right winger popping up. Nowadays it's left to chance. You all sit here on your fat arses debating political theory and election results - if you've lost touch with the Board, fuck knows what's going on for you real life.
No platform - HA!
There's some that really believe that and get involved, but most of you just wave your factional political willies and haven't got a clue.
Love etc x
Anyway, you can stay here grouching and fucking murmering as long as you like if you want. It makes no difference.-----------------------------------------------
When I first joined the boards 2 nearly 3 years ago, there used to be an active interest in what was happening on the boards generally. Yeah, P&P used to be pretty elite in themselves - but at least some of the principal posters used to get involved in the other forums e.g. General.
What I fail to fucking understand is the projectory of some of the threads in General atm. If you lot can't get involved on your own fucking choice of board, what hope is there that you'll be doing it in real life. I mentioned the Gypsies threads earlier - and fair play - there hasn't been much movement on those threads in recent days.
But racism has raised its head again over the last few days. And you know what, I reckon there's a load of posters that don't post much in P&P for obvious reasons but have a wee look and will stick their heads above the parapet in General - they have done and good on them.
Then I look at this thread http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=7323610&posted=1#post7323610
Fucks sake - I remember back to a couple of years ago when that kind of thread would have been watched like a hawk, and everyone descend on a far right winger popping up. Nowadays it's left to chance. You all sit here on your fat arses debating political theory and election results - if you've lost touch with the Board, fuck knows what's going on for you real life.
No platform - HA!
There's some that really believe that and get involved, but most of you just wave your factional political willies and haven't got a clue.
Love etc x
kabbes
First intersubjective, then internalised
Cesare -- that thread's a troll (intentionally so or otherwise). And you've been sucked into the troll, because you initially gave good info but latterly got exasperated and just went with "fuck off, fash".
And frankly, what more is to be said? How many people need to give factual information and abuse to one troll?
And frankly, what more is to be said? How many people need to give factual information and abuse to one troll?
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Well you're obviously right that in the end I got exasperated
But whilst the thread starter (jusali iirc) might have been trolling initially, pretty much everyone saw that to begin with. Then the discussion became more involved. Then up pops someone with this scientific theory, and it wasn't just anyone, it was a long term poster.
kabbes
First intersubjective, then internalised
Well there's a few things from that.
Firstly, anybody reading the first few page or so of the thread would come to the conclusion that it was just the usual Urban medley of sillyness, which doesn't really warrant close monitoring. If a thread doesn't grab me, I don't tend to come back to it unless it is obvious that it is kicking off. That one slipped under my radar, I have to say.
Secondly, the real trolling I was referring to was exactly that of the long-time poster. "Trolling" is probably the wrong word, because I don't think he was intentionally looking for a rise. But it was the other form of what I think of as "trolling", in that it was just endlessly repeated specious rubbish that self-evidently shows that the speaker doesn't have a clue. So I repeat -- how many people does it take to respond to that? You, Johnny and a few others were giving the facts of the matter. What else was there to debate? Do we all have to pile in and say, "yes, it's true. There is no scientific definition of race"? Does that help?
If it were a real ruck with a serious argument between factions about the nature of racism and its effects you might have a point. But that thread isn't it.
Firstly, anybody reading the first few page or so of the thread would come to the conclusion that it was just the usual Urban medley of sillyness, which doesn't really warrant close monitoring. If a thread doesn't grab me, I don't tend to come back to it unless it is obvious that it is kicking off. That one slipped under my radar, I have to say.
Secondly, the real trolling I was referring to was exactly that of the long-time poster. "Trolling" is probably the wrong word, because I don't think he was intentionally looking for a rise. But it was the other form of what I think of as "trolling", in that it was just endlessly repeated specious rubbish that self-evidently shows that the speaker doesn't have a clue. So I repeat -- how many people does it take to respond to that? You, Johnny and a few others were giving the facts of the matter. What else was there to debate? Do we all have to pile in and say, "yes, it's true. There is no scientific definition of race"? Does that help?
If it were a real ruck with a serious argument between factions about the nature of racism and its effects you might have a point. But that thread isn't it.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
I see exactly what you're saying Kabbes, however (a) I honestly feel this is becoming more and more common on the other forums; (b) that these types of specious arguments dressed up in half baked scientific theory are exactly what the BNP are using to some obvious effect; (c) that it's not enough to say in theory that we shouldn't entertain it, when it's going on under our very noses.
Also Kabbes, clearly you do post in the other forums. But consider the amount of people in P&P that don't - that's where my point is aimed. And that thread is an example only.
Also Kabbes, clearly you do post in the other forums. But consider the amount of people in P&P that don't - that's where my point is aimed. And that thread is an example only.
kabbes
First intersubjective, then internalised
Actually, you're right. Sorry, I'm being too specific rather than responding to the general point. There are indeed a hardcore of posters that do restrict themselves to trading pointless rhetoric about some tiny niche of the political spectrum that about 1% of the population even know exists. Personally, though, I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing that they keep these tedious arguments out of the more useful forums. There are some posters for whom you can guarantee their various presences will turn any thread into a 40 page personal war. Who needs that all over the boards?
The Black Hand
Unclean
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Oh what do you mean oh wise one.
'Ignorance beyond belief!' - no, it's calculated.
'And there are some who say we have to treat these wankers seriously!!' - well the BNP are taking it seriously enough to rein him in/put a different spin on it/ say it's quoted out of context etc.
'Every single shite BNP opinion is crap, BUT I was saying there are some who say they deserve political respect. This is bullshit, and the evidence is clear.' - OK, at what point do you think they deserve political respect?
The Black Hand
Unclean
A) It wasn't - it was a very reactionary opinion they failed to hide well.
B) Sacked him didn't they.
C) Fascists? Never. They will always be my enemy. I only give respect to those who have earned it from a working class point of view.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
A) Hide well? He was publishing it on a blog
B) Removed him as a candidate. Can't see that he's been sacked from the BNP entirely, or have I missed something?
C) Yes (we can take that as read), but how does this manifest itself wrt to BNP local elections and the like?
The Black Hand
Unclean
A) Hide well? He was publishing it on a blog
B) Removed him as a candidate. Can't see that he's been sacked from the BNP entirely, or have I missed something?
C) Yes (we can take that as read), but how does this manifest itself wrt to BNP local elections and the like?
A) personally. The BNP as an org want to hide stuff like that.
B) Dunno really at the mo.
C) It depends, I am treating them seriously enough to have developed theory and practice on the issue, and will continue to do so. Other people I know have and are avoiding the issue but it is getting too important to ignore unfortunately, it is becoming a class struggle on a national basis and tactics and strategy are important. Before they were a localised problem that could be ignored politically as there are other serious issues from a working class pov. Such as welfare changes and so on etc.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
A) Yep
B) It'd be interesting to know, wouldn't it?
C) What's the theory and practice that you've developed on the issue? Can you summarise it (I don't do leaflets etc)
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
So what you're actually saying here is that even in the context of the BNP accumulating power to itself, you won't "respect" (in terms of "taking note of the fact") such an accumulation, but would rather just continue fulminating about how much you hate them?
The Black Hand
Unclean
So what you're actually saying here is that even in the context of the BNP accumulating power to itself, you won't "respect" (in terms of "taking note of the fact") such an accumulation, but would rather just continue fulminating about how much you hate them?
The Black Hand
Unclean
To influence people who are struggling we need?
“To merit the right to influence men who are struggling, one must first participate in their struggle, and this first means accepting many things, if you hope to change a few of them... You will discover Justice in each effort that you make to order your undertakings... in each effort to subject yourself to discipline or to apply it.. It is not a question of knowing whether History has a meaning and whether we should deign to participate in it, but to try, from the moment we are in it up to the eyebrows, to give History that meaning which seems best to us, by not refusing our participation, however weak, to any concrete action which may require it” (Sartre, 1965, p. 71-105. Esp. 90 & 104)
Autonomous anti fascism in here;
http://platypus1917.home.comcast.net/~platypus1917/mayday_uk_issue1_win2007-08.pdf
slightly different way of putting it here;
http://journal-articles.googlegroup...boGG1qiJ7UbTIup-M2XPURDRCtAIzYAd7ET1iMmRpdYsL
Taxamo Welf
kebagels pls
holy dick
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Right. Before we go any further, can we (a) assume that I was being completely serious when I said that I didn't do leaflets etc and therefore will not click on your links; and (b) assume that you are trying to persuade yer average person of what EXACTLY it is that you're proposing.
Any chance you could summarise that for me? Assume I'm interested, you've got my attention this far etc
The Black Hand
Unclean
I do not believe that stat Tax, I do not think you should either. What proof is there?
The Black Hand
Unclean
This 'average person' - are they politically active at all? Ex- Labour party? What do they do now? Are they active in their church? Do they run for life (cancer charity) or do they 'Red nose day? or do they buy the 'Big issue? Or is it the 'average person' who isn't politically active at all? please specify the type of person you mean, I am not interested in racists. There is so much variety these days I am very suspicious of constructions of the 'average'.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Just try and explain it to me. I'm pretty average.
its a searchlight figure
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