Apple laptop build quality & tech support suck

[jæd]

I wouldn't accept a TV or a stereo suddenly stopping working after 12 months of normal use, but every computer user I know has problems with their kit after a year or so. Crappy manufacturing or designed obsolescence, either way it sucks. And Apple are as guilty of it as anyone - especially recently.

Thats either complete bs or you haven't dealt with much hardware. My last two Apple laptops (An Ibook G3 and a Duo) both lasted at least five years. And then where either sold on or stomped on by an ex. ( ). And one of my first jobs was supporting kit in a print shop that included several Mac SE (running 7.5) and other older kit. My last PC also lasted 5 years before I upgraded to something modern.

At work we have several computers that where built in the 20th century still toiling away doing mundane tasks...

I could go on. Basically... If you look after it properly, maintain it and choose a quality supplier then a computer should last at least five years. Is Apple a good supplier. Yep... They have the occasional duff machine but they do seem to have good build quality...

 

[cybertect]

I could go on. Basically... If you look after it properly, maintain it and choose a quality supplier then a computer should last at least five years. Is Apple a good supplier. Yep... They have the occasional duff machine but they do seem to have good build quality...

My mum's still using my 1994-vintage PowerMac 7100, though I changed the hard drive for something bigger and more modern a few years ago.

Hard drives can and do fail - along with the power supply, they're the bits that are more likely to be prone to failure.

Drives will usually be quoted by HD manufacturers with a Mean Time Between Failures figure. You can check out the hard drive model by going to 'About this Mac' on the Apple menu and click on the "More info..." button, then do a google search. The Fujitsu MHT2080AT in my PowerBook is quoted at 300,000 hours of operation.

However, that figure is a bit misleading if you're then expecting any particular drive to fail keep working for 34 years - there's a nice explanation of what the MTBF figure means here.

The more useful figures are the service life of the drive, which in the case of my Fujitsu drive is 3 years and, critically, the warranty period, which is only 1 year, meaning that Apple can't claim back the cost or replacing it from Fujitsu if it fails after 14 months (actually, in the UK there's a distinction between a Guarantee and a Warranty, so it's properly a 12 month Guarantee).

FWIW, in the 15+ years I've been playing with Macs, I've only had one Apple-supplied drive fail on me at home - a dodgy Seagate died when it was about 6 weeks old. They were already the subject of a recall and I'd already organised a replacement when it decided to go for a Burton.

As for ones I've bought along the way, an internal 320MB Quantum Fireball SCSI drive did the 'click of death' after about 18 months, and a 200GB external LaCie went belly-up after about 14 months of use.

I've definitely had a few more 'apple' drives go at various clients' sites, though I can't say I've noticed it getting any worse over the last few years.

If it gets that far, I start to distrust any hard drive after it's about 3 years old and would start to think about replacing it as a matter of routine if it's got important data on it.

 

[Jonti]

good OS X like version of linux

Take a look at Ubuntu Linux -- they do both PC and Mac (ppc) versions. There's a version called Kubuntu which uses the KDE desktop. You can download it in the form of a CD iso for free at
http://www.kubuntu.org/download.php

Its suites of free office, internet, graphics and other applications suit most purposes, are free of licensing hassles and costs, and kept up to date for free as well.

But what's really cool is that you can download a live CD iso. Once you've burnt your CD from the iso, you'll be able to boot your Mac system from the CD and see what it's like. The live CD will not affect anything on your hard disk, so it's a great way to try it out on your kit. If you decide that it's for you, you can get the installation CD the same way.

 

[jæd]

Take a look at Ubuntu Linux

What does this have to do with Apple's build quality...?

 

[cybertect]

What does this have to do with Apple's build quality...?

er quite

Actually, there's an argument that running Linux on some Macs could potentially shorten the life of the hardware, depending on which distro and hardware you use or how much you're able to do yourself.

For example, the G5 towers have a number of small variable speed fans around the case that are controlled by the OS to run slowly or not at all when the ventilation isn't required in that particular zone, reducing noise, power consumption and wear and tear. If your Linux distro doesn't take control of them like Mac OS X, they'll default to 'safety' mode and run full pelt to ensure that there's sufficient cooling for whatever hot boards, etc. might be installed. Obviously, this will make your G5 a lot louder than necessary and increase the chances that one of the fans will fail.

That's not to say you shouldn't run Linux on Apple hardware if you really want to. I know that Yellow Dog Linux (PPC specialists) include thermal drivers with their standard installs when they can make them available, but it's sometimes taken a few months to catch up with new hardware.

 

[Jonti]

Can someone reccomend me a good OS X like version of linux

Amazing. Could cybertech and jaed please read the post that started this thread.

Here it is with the part I responded to marked in bold.

>>
Having been a huge & loyal apple fan for 4 yrs now it pains me to say I think they really have gone downhill in recent years with laptop build quality.

The last two apple laptops i've had have suffered from display related problems, the last bieng my 13 month old 15 inch powerbook dying just outta warranty. It looks like the net is filled with apple laptop woe storys.

With the price of PC laptop falling & their increased performance I'm on the verge of switching Can someone reccomend me a good OS X like version of linux i can switch too and also any reasonably priced powerbook repair places in London ?

Thanks
<<

 

[jæd]

Amazing. Could cybertech and jaed please read the post that started this thread.

Right... That was two pages ago. Ever thought of using the "quotes" tag...?

Here it is with the part I responded to marked in bold. Anyway your post seemed to be very one sided on (k)ubuntu. Have you personally tried (k)ubunto on an Apple laptop...? If you have you'd notice two problems. The first is that (k)ubunto assumes a two button mouse and works best with three buttons... And the second is that Airport Extreme cards isn't very well supported.

Oh, and when I tried it on my old ibook it the perfomance it increased but coming out of sleep mode was a bit problematic...

These all make the expereience a bit trying.

(k)ubuntu is a good linux o/s but I linux isn't yet a mainstream desktop os and certainly isn't ready for laptops that (in my) case need tp go anywhere and be able to function 100%. Putting linux on an apple laptop is like buying a bmw 5 series and then replacing the engine with something you buiilt yourself. Could be fun but a bit pointless...

 

[Jonti]

Can someone reccomend me a good OS X like version of linux

Right... That was two pages ago. Ever thought of using the "quotes" tag...?

Jaed, what's your point? If you did not bother to read the original post, you are likely to waste your time, mine, and everyone else's. That's a shame because your experience is undoubtedly helpful to the original poster.

 

[cybertect]

With the price of PC laptop falling & their increased performance I'm on the verge of switching Can someone reccomend me a good OS X like version of linux i can switch too and also any reasonably priced powerbook repair places in London ?

Thanks
<<

I think the second question re: a repair shop has already been answered above.

I'm a little confused about what you're after. If you want to run Linux on Apple hardware, I'd thoroughly recommend Yellow Dog Linux (which I mentioned in my previous post) who have been doing PPC/Apple specific distro for many years and know their way well round the hardware. Google finds it easily enough, but here's their web address.

http://www.yellowdoglinux.com

The distro's based on Redhat's offering, so bear that in mind if you have preferences about what kind of distro you prefer.

If you're looking to switch to a Wintel box and find a Linux that works like OS X, I can't offer much advice, other than to say perhaps you want to look at OpenBSD or FreeBSD (which isn't Linux) but they're the closest relatives to Darwin, which is the underlying Unix layer in OS X.

 

[jæd]

Jaed, what's your point? If you did not bother to read the original post, you are likely to waste your time, mine, and everyone else's. That's a shame because your experience is undoubtedly helpful to the original poster.

My point... : That it is handy to remind everyone to what you are replying to. Not everyone remembers what the first post may have been about (or has time to constantly reread threads). Anyway thread subjects may drift...

 

[Jonti]

a good OS X like version of linux

There's far more choice in Linux distros if mellowmoose is thinking of getting an intel laptop, that's for sure.

But either way, whether one wants to run linux on an apple laptop, or a windows laptop, it's well smart to look before you leap. By that I mean boot the laptop from a liveCD first, and check out that things work OK. As far as I know, Yellow Dog Linux does not yet offer a live CD (I've just done a quick check at http://www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php and it's not mentioned). That's a big drawback, in my eyes.

Ubuntu and its derivative Kubuntu do offer live CDs so mellowmoose could give it a go, no risk, and look out for the problems other posters have warned about. If it's an OS X lookalike that's wanted, I think we have to concede Kubuntu's KDE desktop is as good as it gets. That's my impression anyway.

It's worth mentioning that the original operating system can be retained. Usually, that's sensible. One's paid for it, it still has its uses, so why throw it away? It is trickier to set up a dual boot system, but probably worth it for some folks.

 

[moose]

A repair update:

After a few (polite) phone calls to apple support they've offered to fix the display problem free of charge !

So I take back everything I said about apple - they rock

On the few occasions I've had to contact Apple with a problem, the call centre people have invariably tried to go through their usual trouble-shooting routine with me, then as soon as I've appeared remotely knowledgable about the product, they've offered repair/replacement quite happily. As one of them told me last month, "Hey, it's not my money'.

 

[mellowmoose]

There's far more choice in Linux distros if mellowmoose is thinking of getting an intel laptop, that's for sure.

yup linux on a intel laptop

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Very impressed with Knoppix live distro, reconised everything on my acer laptop and was connected straight to the net. Great when windows goes down.