Anyone know anything about Teckal or LATCs

Discussion in 'education & employment' started by Part 2, May 23, 2018.

  1. Part 2

    Part 2 bizarre wanking accident

    The service I work for has been contracted out by the local authority for the past 23 years. I started 22 years ago.

    We've been expecting the tender to go out by the end of June and been told today that the proposal is that the service will be run as a Wholly Owned Trading Company. The document I've seen refers to Teckal.

    From what can gather this is a way of a council running a service without having to comply with the usual conditions, NJC pay scales etc but tbh I got a bit lost and couldn't understand a large part of the paper.

    Has anyone any knowledge or experience of these?

    Any advice or info much appreciated
  2. Puddy_Tat

    Puddy_Tat meh

    can't offer anything on the specifics, but (apologies if i'm stating what you already know) TUPE is going to be a big thing here - so you ought to transfer on existing pay / conditions (and length of service, for stuff like redundancy entitlements) to new employer. but not pension scheme.

    how it works in detail can be complicated and there's a lot of urban myths and outright bollocks talked about it. can possibly offer more thoughts tomorrow if you like - i've been on the receiving end a couple of times (once managed to avoid it, once didn't)

    more (on TSSA's website - the first one that came up) here.

    Something on UNISON site (opens as PDF) about the LATC thing here (I haven't attempted to digest it but may be worth a look) - or is that the paper you got lost with?
  3. Part 2

    Part 2 bizarre wanking accident

    Thanks that's great.

    I started reading the Unison pdf last night. The examples of other boroughs sound horrendous. The bit I did pick up on was around the need to negotiate for TUPE Plus. I can't seem to find out how long TUPE lasts for? I know it was once longer than it is now but in any case I expect a restructure soon after being TUPE'd where everyone would end up on new terms and conditions anyway.

    The paper I got lost with is the specific proposal for the running of the service. There's probably a lot in it I don't need to know at this stage, tax and vat stuff.
  4. Puddy_Tat

    Puddy_Tat meh

    the idea that TUPE has a time limit is one of the myths.

    employers can (irrespective of tupe) seek to change t&c which is a different thing.

    minor / 'reasonable' changes at time of transfer are usually ok (moving site a few miles usually would be, moving 100 miles probably wouldn't)

    some employers will respect t&c and get on with it.

    some will offer transfer to their t&c, sometimes with a lump sum to buy out bits of contract

    some will be bloody difficult and make promotion - or even inflation pay rises - dependent on accepting new place's t&c

    with either case, continuous employment, for redundancy rights etc, will still be from date you started at old place.

    old place may, if they want, offer staff at risk of transfer, the chance to stay and do other work. you have the right to transfer anyway, and old place have to offer this to whole group of staff, not pick favourites to stay / others they want to go.

    new place can't just decline to take on individuals (even if as sometimes happens, an individual they have sacked in the past)

    and if individuals decline transfer, that's legally resigning not redundancy.

    also its complicated if you only spend part of your working life doing work that's transferring to new place.
    MickiQ, equationgirl and Part 2 like this.
  5. equationgirl

    equationgirl Respect my existence or expect my resistance

    I had a brief look at Teckal and it seems to be a very complicated thing peculiar to NHS procurement and outsourcing.
  6. Part 2

    Part 2 bizarre wanking accident

    Yea the local authority are making a big thing of it being innovative but it looks like bollocks. From what I can tell they're thinking of it as a 12 month thing. No-one would set up a company thinking in those terms. It just looks like a last minute decision because they couldn't come up with any other way to save £200k
  7. Puddy_Tat

    Puddy_Tat meh

    more about the whole TUPE thing here (TSSA union website) - I wasn't really in a position to do search / links when I was on the move this morning.

    a fair amount of TUPE law is case-law and precedent rather than letter of the law, so it can come down to arguing about what is 'reasonable' in each set of circumstances - for example on the moving location thing, expecting a full time employee to move to a site a few miles away could be 'reasonable' but the same move for an office cleaner employed for one hour a day might not be.

    the usual urban question - are you in a union and are they involved? this may be the sort of thing beyond a lay colleague rep / steward and they will probably need to get branch / regional office involved
    equationgirl likes this.
  8. Part 2

    Part 2 bizarre wanking accident

    Yea we have a union rep I sent him the stuff this morning. He'll be out of his depth with all this; there's 30 staff who've been there anything between a few months to 22 years, several different contracts so I'm pretty sure he'll be going to others for support

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