Antiziganism: why is it still acceptable?

[Stoat Boy]

The problem is that Roma culture is pretty negative in many ways. Having spent some time in Montenegro where the local Roma population have full legal status they still choose to go begging and so on along with things such as drugging the kids to keep them asleep and even delibarately maiming themselves. Which makes them unpopular in some quarters

To be fair its not all negative and there are plenty of Roma bands and the like who are always in demand but I think that how they live and the standards they have are at odds with the conventional ones the majority in the west have and thus there is the clashes.

 

[nino_savatte]

Ah, there's nowt like a negative ethnic stereotype.

 

[Nardini]

Have you seen this?

The girls were recovered from the sea by a passer-by and later declared dead by a lifeguard who called for help as Manuela and Diana wept, banging their tiny fists on the corpses.

As the police arrived, their cousins, distraught and in shock, were taken away to contact relatives. Two beach towels were used to cover the dead Roma girls. And then something extraordinary occurred.

Summer beach life resumed around the bodies for three hours until an ambulance finally showed up. In the most striking image of all, a couple nonchalantly ate a picnic while looking on at the scene. Another threw a frisbee nearby. The indifference, picked up by newspapers and TV stations across the world, was seen by the country's liberal elite to be the final straw. The most senior Catholic in Naples, Cardinal Crescenzio Sepe, was the quickest to point out the coarsening of human sentiment which the behaviour in Torregaveta represented: 'Cristina and Violetta,' he told the Italian media, 'had faced nothing but prejudice in life and indifference in death; an unforgivable truth.'

However, this is the real subject of the article: the deaths of two Roma girls.

The photographer that took the photograph published throughout the world, Alessandro Garofalo, who works for il mattino in napoli, was disgusted that the only photograph that was used was the one showing a couple in the distance, looking sad and uncomfoirtable. He took many other photographs that show that the press - including the Guardian and Independent - were not at all truthful in their presentation of this "story".
Have a look at a few other photographs taken at the same time...

See the couple you know already in the distance? How about the other side, where they are sunbathing and throwing frisbees...:

Ahh - lots of people sunbathing..? or are they standing up, looking concerned... How about looking out to sea:

All these images are taken from a LA7 news article.

Take a look at another video?
http://www.videocomunicazioni.com/2008/07/19/torregaveta-muoiono-annegate-due-sorelline-slave/

The power of the press - and the irresponsible use of images to both sell newspapers and create a story out of nothing to peddle a rather sad, xenophobic view of their political stance.

So much for the press in the UK at the moment. Everything is turning into a "red-top" moment - a slightly more intellectual version of Page 3...

Now, apart from showing us how many names you know to describe Gypsies, what point are you trying to make - other than all Italians are b'stards and are fully paid-up members of the KKK...

Pshawww!

 

[nino_savatte]

I think you, like so many others, deliberately miss the point. Why is antiziganism still acceptable? I think your apologia rather illustrates my point.

This rather reductive and trite, though very much in keeping with your theme/'thesis'.

So much for the press in the UK at the moment. Everything is turning into a "red-top" moment - a slightly more intellectual version of Page 3...

Odd how you have no comment on the other articles and links - isn't it?

 

[Nardini]

I think you, like so many others, deliberately miss the point. Why is antiziganism still acceptable? I think your apologia rather illustrates my point.

This rather reductive and trite, though very much in keeping with your theme/'thesis'.

Odd how you have no comment on the other articles and links - isn't it?

You seem to enjoy propagating lies and myths, despite them having been shown to be false and baseless in fact.

There is absolutely no point at all in replying to all of your - and other's - nonsense, when my post above shows clearly the real situation, without any child journalist getting in on the act to write yet another mindless, ignorant piece of trash, designed to get the blood boiling (and the subscriptions rolling in) of the wannabe socially aware amongst us.

 

[nino_savatte]

You seem to enjoy propagating lies and myths, despite them having been shown to be false and baseless in fact.

There is absolutely no point at all in replying to all of your - and other's - nonsense, when my post above shows clearly the real situation, without any child journalist getting in on the act to write yet another mindless, ignorant piece of trash, designed to get the blood boiling (and the subscriptions rolling in) of the wannabe socially aware amongst us.

That is a misrepresentation. Your posts have done nothing but evade the subject in order to make some thinly veiled attack on me. It's pathetic. Even your suggestion that this is a whispering campaign that has been orchestrated by the British media is fallacious.

The only one posting nonsense on this thread is you. Indeed, the only one who is "propagating lies and myths" is you. You continue to deny that Berlusconi has ordered the fingerprinting of all Roma.

If you haver nothing else to add beyond your usual apologies, then bugger off.

 

[Nardini]

That is a misrepresentation. Your posts have done nothing but evade the subject in order to make some thinly veiled attack on me. It's pathetic. Even your suggestion that this is a whispering campaign that has been orchestrated by the British media is fallacious.

The only one posting nonsense on this thread is you. Indeed, the only one who is "propagating lies and myths" is you. You continue to deny that Berlusconi has ordered the fingerprinting of all Roma.

If you haver nothing else to add beyond your usual apologies, then bugger off.

My word, you certainly have a few problems up your sleeve, don't you!

I am not apologising for anyone or anything. I posted a few of the other photos that were taken at the time the two young girls were drowned near to Naples recently. This was to illustrate that the stories written in the British press about "Italians sunbathing" or playing frisbees, etc. was a work of fantasy on the part of the British press. You seem to want to continue to defend the situation where you can attack an entire nation as being callous and indifferent to death, despite your story now exposed as complete myth and media fuelled cant.

My dear, I think you are the one to "bugger off", as you so intelligently and succinctly put it.

 

[nino_savatte]

My word, you certainly have a few problems up your sleeve, don't you!

I am not apologising for anyone or anything. I posted a few of the other photos that were taken at the time the two young girls were drowned near to Naples recently. This was to illustrate that the stories written in the British press about "Italians sunbathing" or playing frisbees, etc. was a work of fantasy on the part of the British press. You seem to want to continue to defend the situation where you can attack an entire nation as being callous and indifferent to death, despite your story now exposed as complete myth and media fuelled cant.

My dear, I think you are the one to "bugger off", as you so intelligently and succinctly put it.

It's funny how, instead of acknowledging the continuing problem of antiziganism in Europe, you rush to the defence of Italy and, by extension, Berlusconi's move to fingerprint the Roma. Did you even bother to read and comprehend the OP? No, you did not.

You're the one with the problems, not me. I think your Italophilia (if that's what it really is) is blinding you to the realities.

 

[nino_savatte]

You seem to want to continue to defend the situation where you can attack an entire nation as being callous and indifferent to death, despite your story now exposed as complete myth and media fuelled cant.

Evidence please.

 

[Nardini]

Evidence please.

Look up.

Post #33

 

[nino_savatte]

Look up.

Post #33

Jesus wept, do you have some difficulty with reading and comprehension?

I would like evidence for this assertion, if you would be so kind.

You seem to want to continue to defend the situation where you can attack an entire nation as being callous and indifferent to death, despite your story now exposed as complete myth and media fuelled cant.

 

[nino_savatte]

So, Nardini, do you accept that antiziganism is still rife in Europe, while anti-Semitism is roundly condemned? In Slovakia, the Roma are considered as second class citizens and subjected to abuse and violence.
http://www.hrw.org/wr2k2/europe17.html.

In Kosovo, they are persecuted by the newly independent state along with ethnic Serbs. Here is a Human Rights Watch report from 1999. Nothing has changed.



Please, by all means, insist that the Roma/Sinti aren't still being subjected to persecution. I think that you will find the evidence is heavily stacked against your thesis.

My only "agenda" is justice and human rights. I'm sorry that you find that so unpalatable.

Still no comment on this, Nardini?

 

[untethered]

I caught a couple fly tipping recently. You think they'd try hard to avoid perpetuating these stereotypes, but obviously not.

 

[nino_savatte]

Now, apart from showing us how many names you know to describe Gypsies, what point are you trying to make - other than all Italians are b'stards and are fully paid-up members of the KKK...

So you deny that antiziganism is still rife in much of Europe. Is this what you're saying?

 

[Nardini]

So you deny that antiziganism is still rife in much of Europe. Is this what you're saying?

Of course not! I am objecting to your own racial sterotyping and racialist views against Italians. Look at the pictures. Do you see anyone sunbathing? Anyone playing games? People ignoring the two dead girls lying on the beach? Now compare to "your" newspaper articles. Do you spot the discrepancy? Yes, your newspaper sources are portraying a situation that is not one that happened. They have made the story up. Is that clear enough for you yet?

Post #33

 

[nino_savatte]

Of course not! I am objecting to your own racial sterotyping and racialist views against Italians. Look at the pictures. Do you see anyone sunbathing? Anyone playing games? People ignoring the two dead girls lying on the beach? Now compare to "your" newspaper articles. Do you spot the discrepancy? Yes, your newspaper sources are portraying a situation that is not one that happened. They have made the story up. Is that clear enough for you yet?

Post #33

Again, please cite where I have "stereotyped" Italians, let alone presented "racialist views" against them.

You're talking out of your arse.

 

[nino_savatte]

Well, Nardini? Another thing: since when did Italians qualify as a "race"? Italy has only been a country for around 120 years; the Italian peninsula was a patchwork of small independent principalities and city-states before that. But an Italophile like you should already know this.

You know, I describe myself as a Francophile but I would never deny the existence of racism, anti-Semitism and antiziganism in France.

 

[nino_savatte]

Yes, your newspaper sources are portraying a situation that is not one that happened

And you have produced a story from a single source as your 'evidence'. it would seem that you currently suffer from a paucity of supporting proof.

 

[nino_savatte]

Fedayn posted this on another related thread
http://www.everyonegroup.com/EveryO...opean_Union_is_at_a_dangerous_crossroads.html