Antifacist Protest at Dorchester Hotel- 17 Feb

[audiotech]

So what you're saying is that you have absolutely fuck all evidence to back up your position?

What do you think of the poll results mk12 posted up earlier?

I said I've no hard evidence.

Stats like that mean nada. There has been a concentrated focus (mostly negative) on asylum seekers, immigrants, migrants, Iranians, Kosovan's, Bulgarians, Roma's, the Poles, need I go on? Is it any wonder poll results like the ones mk12 posted reflect the concerns people have; gleaned from information they have little, if any control over?

Another report, to add to a number already published, may be of more interest to the those with a mortgage payment, or rent to find, children to rear, bills to pay, that talks about an increase in growth rates; inflation being kept stable; interest rates kept low "without undermining the jobs of British born workers"; average earnings at 4% (excluding bonuses).

I suspect if this information on immigration was more widely disseminated then there would be a different poll result.

 

[In Bloom]

I said I've no hard evidence.

Stats like that mean nada. There has been a concentrated focus (mostly negative) on asylum seekers, immigrants, migrants, Iranians, Kosovan's, Bulgarians, Roma's, the Poles, need I go on? Is it any wonder poll results like the ones mk12 posted reflect the concerns people have; gleaned from information they have little, if any control over?

So working class people do welcome immigration, they just think they don't because they've been, like, brainwashed by the media and stuff, maan? You really are one of the best useful idiots the BNP ever had.

Those stats mean rather a lot if we're talking about what people's views on immigration are. Not that you actually give a shit what the majority of people think, of course.

Another report, to add to a number already published, may be of more interest to the those with a mortgage payment, or rent to find, children to rear, bills to pay, that talks about an increase in growth rates; inflation being kept stable; interest rates kept low "without undermining the jobs of British born workers"; average earnings at 4% (excluding bonuses).

What report is this? And if that's the case, why are the CBI so keen on immigration then?

 

[audiotech]

So working class people do welcome immigration, they just think they don't because they've been, like, brainwashed by the media and stuff, maan? You really are one of the best useful idiots the BNP ever had.

Those stats mean rather a lot if we're talking about what people's views on immigration are. Not that you actually give a shit what the majority of people think, of course.


What report is this? And if that's the case, why are the CBI so keen on immigration then?

I made clear that information is limited on the subject. If you want to turn that into saying that people are being "brainwashed by the media" then that's up to you. I don't agree with that idea.

Statistics are like shifting sands as someone once said. A poll is usually a "representative sample" (of what is anyone's guess?) of around a thousand people and not a plebiscite.

The report is by accountancy firm PricewaterhouseCoopers and I have no idea if their "keen on immigration", or not?

 

[In Bloom]

I made clear that information is limited on the subject. If you want to turn that into saying that people are being "brainwashed by the media" then that's up to you. I don't agree with that idea.

Statistics are like shifting sands as someone once said. A poll is usually a "representative sample" (of what is anyone's guess?) of around a thousand people and not a plebiscite.

Can you find a single survey that indicates the opposite though? I mean, if those surveys are so random and useless, surely you would have been able to find at least one that showed that a majority of people "welcome immigration?

The report is by accountancy firm PricewaterhouseCoopers

Do you have a link to their findings? And how did you become aware of it if the media covers up all the positive information about immigration apparently floating out there.

 

[audiotech]

Can you find a single survey that indicates the opposite though? I mean, if those surveys are so random and useless, surely you would have been able to find at least one that showed that a majority of people "welcome immigration?


Do you have a link to their findings? And how did you become aware of it if the media covers up all the positive information about immigration apparently floating out there.

I see people living and working side by side in the many cosmopolitan communities that exist in the UK, including the poorest boroughs. Wonder if they were ever surveyed? What will be clear in any such survey is the readiness of the indigenous population to transform itself alongside the Britishness of immigrants.

Today's Guardian was the source. Other papers I read that day didn't cover it. The Daily Star (apparently, a right riveting read) had a World Exclusive with the ground breaking news of Teddy Sheringham being dumped by his girlfriend.

We appear to be off topic and moved onto a subject that has been flogged to death on numerous other threads. If you want to start a further thread then be my guest.

 

[In Bloom]

I see people living and working side by side in the many cosmopolitan communities that exist in the UK, including the poorest boroughs. Wonder if they were ever surveyed?

See, this is where you fall down, you assume that people who are in favour of strong immigration controls (I'm not, by the way) are racist or hate immigrants or some such bollocks, when that just isn't the case.

Today's Guardian was the source.

Right, that's a start:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/immigration/story/0,,2022111,00.html

The PwC report found that although migrant workers had increased the supply of labour in the UK, there had not been any adverse effects on the employment prospects of British-born workers. "[Migrant] workers tend to be relatively productive and have filled important skills gaps in the UK labour market rather than just displacing UK-born workers," said John Hawksworth, chief economist at PwC.

This is just bollocks, are they suggesting that there weren't enough British people qualified to do these jobs? If so, how can they enter these markets in large numbers without undermining UK born workers?

Most migrants are aged between 18 and 34 years, with high employment rates compared with their UK equivalents, and therefore benefit payments are low. They also receive comparatively low wages despite their good education and skills levels

And how do migrants manage to have higher employment rates and lower wages without being used to undermine other workers?

 

[audiotech]

See, this is where you fall down, you assume that people who are in favour of strong immigration controls (I'm not, by the way) are racist or hate immigrants or some such bollocks, when that just isn't the case.


Right, that's a start:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/immigration/story/0,,2022111,00.html

This is just bollocks, are they suggesting that there weren't enough British people qualified to do these jobs? If so, how can they enter these markets in large numbers without undermining UK born workers?


And how do migrants manage to have higher employment rates and lower wages without being used to undermine other workers?

I made no such assumption, so please cut that nonsense out. My point was that certain voices are not being heard and I'm not saying that's by design either.

The "skills gap" issue? What "skill gap" is being filled here?

Youth unemployment has always been used to undermine other workers. Nothing new in that and the wage rates are usually lower. Higher employment rates are a lot to do with how fit and how someone is motivated. A "good education" helps too.

 

[In Bloom]

I made no such assumption, so please cut that nonsense out. My point was that certain voices are not being heard and I'm not saying that's by design either.

So what evidence do you have for this grand conspiracy of statisticians? Do they all meet in secret little cabals and talk about whose voice they're going to suppress today?

The "skills gap" issue? What "skill gap" is being filled here?

The one that was used as the central point of the study you just cited, genius.

Youth unemployment has always been used to undermine other workers. Nothing new in that and the wage rates are usually lower. Higher employment rates are a lot to do with how fit and how someone is motivated. A "good education" helps too.

Absolutely, nobody's saying that immigration in itself causes these problems, this is what I'm talking about, you don't even attempt to understand what people are saying, not that you'd find it that easy anyway.

 

[audiotech]

So what evidence do you have for this grand conspiracy of statisticians? Do they all meet in secret little cabals and talk about whose voice they're going to suppress today?


The one that was used as the central point of the study you just cited, genius.


Absolutely, nobody's saying that immigration in itself causes these problems, this is what I'm talking about, you don't even attempt to understand what people are saying, not that you'd find it that easy anyway.

If you read the post more closely you'll find I said that's it's 'not by design', so your 'conspiracy theory' charge (which I'd second guessed ) falls down.

I've never claimed to be a 'genius'. My question related to specific skills relating to the work carried out by migrants. What type of skills are being filled? Well? Any ideas Einstein?

The banal comment that 'I don't find it easy to understand what people are saying' is just bile, as the group I chaired today will testify.