Antifacist Protest at Dorchester Hotel- 17 Feb

[KeyboardJockey]

KeyboardJockey]Why not do something sensible about the bnp? Like get involved in community politics, chanelling peoples complaints about housing etc to the local authority, running a litter pick etc etc etc.
.[/[/I]QUOTE]

well that should be done anyway, but based on the disunity of the English left- such politics will take too long. Every move to unite the left - other than via Respect- seems to have failed-and with the BNP growing daily and polling high votes like Nuneaton (and possibly winning another councillor in Burnley in a by election this Thursday) time is not on our hands

A twin track strategy of building a left alternative makes more sense. organise to repalce the BNP- like Respect are doing in Barking- and a militant antifascist response against individual racists and fascists- ensuring they are sacked from their job for being fascists like here- also has a place

why cant both stragegies work side be side?

WHAT are Respect doing in Barking. Not a lot from what I can see and hear. Apart from boosting the fash by bringing ina lot of shouty activists from outside the borough.

 

[poster342002]

Why not do something sensible about the bnp? Like get involved in community politics, chanelling peoples complaints about housing etc to the local authority, running a litter pick etc etc etc.

Much of the left does not "do" cost-of-living type issues that affect the poor and working classes due to an irrational fear of coming across as being "daily-mailesque" - hence anyone who does criticise rising prices, council tax, stealth taxes etc gets snarling denunciations from the left. of course, guess which direction that reaction pushes a lot of poorer people? .

Instead the left (of most varieties) prefers to limit itself to things like TU rights (despite hardly anyonen being in a TU anymore), racism, islamophobia and the war. And that's more or less it.

 

[Streathamite]

UAf is I would not deny- but why would this affect the correctness or not of this action? It deserves support even it was the monster raving loonies organising the event.

ALL of them were, ffs!
why oppose it? 1) because as a front, UAF is by definition run by a bunch of bourgeois control freaks with a god given gift for demoralising young, idealistic types, and alienating and irritating w/c communities by their tendency to lecture and patronise them, and by their inability to listen to the class. end result? actual harm is done.
2) it plays right in the hands of the BNP by letting them protest that their members democratic rights to belong to a legal party are under attack, and raises sympathy for them in some quarters
2) It won't work
3) in an eerie echo of how swappies piss off core voters, this will, if anything, make the BNP look good in front of ENB members and employees.
we WANT BNP members to be open and public - so we get them where we can see them. we do NOT want them driven underground

 

[Streathamite]

Much of the left does not "do" cost-of-living type issues that affect the poor and working classes due to an irrational fear of coming across as being "daily-mailesque" - hence anyone who does criticise rising prices, council tax, stealth taxes etc gets snarling denunciations from the left. of course, guess which direction that reaction pushes a lot of poorer people? .

Instead the left (of most varieties) prefers to limit itself to things like TU rights (despite hardly anyonen being in a TU anymore), racism, islamophobia and the war. And that's more or less it.

agree with everything else you've said, but 7 million TU members is a tad more than 'hardly anyone'

 

[poster342002]

agree with everything else you've said, but 7 million TU members is a tad more than 'hardly anyone'

Yeah - but compare it to the millions of workers not in unions and it starts to look rather puny in perspective.

 

[chilango]

well that should be done anyway, but based on the disunity of the English left- such politics will take too long. Every move to unite the left - other than via Respect- seems to have failed-and with the BNP growing daily and polling high votes like Nuneaton (and possibly winning another councillor in Burnley in a by election this Thursday) time is not on our hands

...maybe stop worrying about "uniting the left" and just getting on with it wherever you can.

You`re right. Time is not on our hands, so stop dangerous posturing like the ENB stuff and get on with unglamourous stuff suggested above.

 

[Nigel]

Much of the left does not "do" cost-of-living type issues that affect the poor and working classes due to an irrational fear of coming across as being "daily-mailesque" - hence anyone who does criticise rising prices, council tax, stealth taxes etc gets snarling denunciations from the left. of course, guess which direction that reaction pushes a lot of poorer people? .

Instead the left (of most varieties) prefers to limit itself to things like TU rights (despite hardly anyonen being in a TU anymore), racism, islamophobia and the war. And that's more or less it.

Which political orgs. support the rising price of living, the council tax, never have much of a conversation in working class environments about stealth taxes.

One thing I do get a lot which I think stems from Sun, Daily Mail, is Inheritence Tax. I just argue that it works in the interest of the rich; if you have decent legal & financial advice access to offshore banking etc, etc then the amount you pay is minimum, however if you've worked all your lie and are a middle income earner and caught on the back end of this they will try to screw you for every penny you've got.

I don't think the SP takes a line being supportive to the above mentioned, their main campaign in the incarnation of Millies after all was the Poll Tax. Of all the left political organisations going they are more in tune with the issues of working class people, because most of them if not working class come from a working class background. how do you deal with these issues

Trade Unionism is primary to any struggle because of the economic power it has to coerce governmental powers and businesses: I remember years ago during the 1984/85 miners strike seeing an interview with some city gent laughing about a Stop The City protest saying (rightly) that the only way to stop the city was the way Arthur and the miners were going.

This is bollox about protesting outside a ballet. Their is no way you/they are going to No Platform her, it just gives her more credence for her and the politics of the BNP in the publics gaze; looks like she has something positive to say.
This is not a positive antifascist action but a publicity stunt for the SWP & other middle class elements within UAF and surrounding bodies (probably including Searchlight).

By the way any report back on what has happened?

 

[treelover]

30% in Nuneaton that is quite something, the left needs to wake up and smell the coffee, no more useless stunts, knuckle down get involved in the local community, etc. This isn't the 1970's, battles on the streets the 'glory' days of Lewisham 1977, etc,

n a council by-election in Nuneaton & Bedworth yesterday, the "extreme right wing" BNP came in second with 31.15 percent of the vote, only narrowly beaten by the incumbent Labour, which took the seat with 37.54 percent.

One should never draw conclusions from one set of results – especially from local by-elections. But this was a hard-fought contest, where the turnout was 36.08 percent despite the heavy snow, compared with the 20 percent that might have been expected.

The Conservatives managed a mere 17.17 percent, the Lib-Dems 6.79 percent and UKIP a pathetic 0.45 percent, accounting for exactly eight votes. They were even beaten by the English Democrats, who pulled 75 votes.

BNP's vote compares favourably with its share of the vote in Bradford during last May's local authority elections, when it achieved 27.5 percent of the vote in the wards which they contested.

As results like this continue to drift in, we are seeing more and more a broad-based rejection of the mainstream political parties, with voters turning to the minnows. In the north and the midlands (and some parts of London), BNP is the front-runner. Elsewhere, UKIP is getting some of the votes.

 

[Reese]

Barking and Dagenham

Just read a statement from George Galloway in which I says the BNP had ten councillers in Tower Hamlets ten years ago which is news to me, has he been misquoted or doesn't he know anything about the area he's MP for?

He also states that Respect has replaced the BNP in Tower Hamlets, which is true, however he doesn't mention the growing Muslim vote in the area as being the reason. All Respect are going to do in Barking is cream off Labour votes and let the BNP in !

Mini rant over!

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Just read a statement from George Galloway in which I says the BNP had ten councillers in Tower Hamlets ten years ago which is news to me, has he been misquoted or doesn't he know anything about the area he's MP for?

He also states that Respect has replaced the BNP in Tower Hamlets, which is true, however he doesn't mention the growing Muslim vote in the area as being the reason. All Respect are going to do in Barking is cream off Labour votes and let the BNP in !

Mini rant over!

Its worse than that. Respect are bussing in activists to shout abuse at bnp councillors and supposed supporters which is pissing off ordinary people under pressure economically and socially and driving them towards the bnp.

Respect have done fuck all positive in connection with b and d.

 

[JHE]

Just read a statement from George Galloway in which I says the BNP had ten councillers in Tower Hamlets ten years ago which is news to me, has he been misquoted or doesn't he know anything about the area he's MP for?

I'm no fan of the GG, but I doubt very much that he is that ill-informed. I think he knows very well that the BNP briefly had one councillor in the early 90s (Millwall ward). GG has probably been misreported.

 

[JHE]

For, but not in?

Still, here's a funny thing about "the official launch of Respect for Barking and Dagenham". Apparently, it was held not in Barking or Dagenham, but in bloody Ilford!

See: Bark & Dag Recorder

Can this be true?

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Still, here's a funny thing about "the official launch of Respect for Barking and Dagenham". Apparently, it was held not in Barking or Dagenham, but in bloody Ilford!

See: Bark & Dag Recorder

Can this be true?

Wouldn't surprise me I'm afraid. The bnp did pretty well support wise out of the last outing of UAF. They turned up with a load of shouty students and the UAF managed to do something really scary - they made the bnp look normal and reasonable.

Meeting in ilford!!!! It is not as if there are a lack of available venues in B and D. You've got the community halls, church halls, clubs etc etc.

Why meet in Ilford? Not scared are they of real community politics or the way they might have been met. BTW Ilford has a higher muslim population which is one reason why Respect could have chosen ilford.

 

[Reese]

George Galloway

In fact GG had been misquoted about the Tower hamlets BNP councillors. He actually said there was one, however, is Millwall (where the BNP had a councillor) in Tower Hamlets ?

 

[Larry O'Hara]

Ilford has a higher muslim population which is one reason why Respect could have chosen ilford.

and maybe Lecomber was providing tea & explosives afterwards....

 

[Streathamite]

In fact GG had been misquoted about the Tower hamlets BNP councillors. He actually said there was one, however, is Millwall (where the BNP had a councillor) in Tower Hamlets ?

yup it sure is, the place not the club

 

[JimPage]

30% in Nuneaton that is quite something, the left needs to wake up and smell the coffee, no more useless stunts, knuckle down get involved in the local community, etc. This isn't the 1970's, battles on the streets the 'glory' days of Lewisham 1977, etc,

But considering the BNP have returned to the streets over the last few months- surely a return to Lewisham is exactly what is needed

 

[JHE]

a return to Lewisham is exactly what is needed

Lewisham has more than enough problems without rabid Anti-Nartzees hunting ballerinas there.

 

[Luther Blissett]

But considering the BNP have returned to the streets over the last few months- surely a return to Lewisham is exactly what is needed

Some of what UAF does is effective - nicely written leaflets with the history of the BNP, the street-walking deliveries and the jolly nice tea-and-biscuit review afterwards, but standing outside the Dorchester because there's a BNP ballerina inside is just bad PR move that will bring UAF further into disrepute. Keyboard Jockey has a point - all rants and no action has the potential to make the BNP look relatively normal.

Engaging with local councils to provide what communities need to stop the once traditionally left-wing working class being further pushed into the arms of the racist BNP is also what is needed. Never forget - potatoes were one of Hitler's most effective tools in gaining popular support.

UAFers in each locality COULD be doing so much more to highlight what it is that attracts people to the BNP and whoever they're affiliated to could be more active and effective in ensuring that communities know how to attain their needs, and redirecting the angst of the locals to those that can effect change, show them how to engage with the processes of hierarchical democracy, inform them of how to set up independent action groups, but this isn't within the UAF mission, as far as I am aware.

For me, and many other Contemporary Anarchists, this type of hierarchical democracy is too slow, too corrupt, and too ineffectual - the best course of action is to get your hands dirty and get stuck in, something the UAF don't or can't do.

Art Activists have been successful in finding out why people who were once on the left have turned to the racist right for support: http://www.peoplelikeyou.org.uk/. I've never seen the UAF refer to their work, not once.

The people who support the BNP, some in their third generation of social-neglect, are in a weakened state. Once, these people were strong, and traditionally took left-wing views, but years of being demonised by ambitious politicians and marginalised by local councillors have driven them into the arms of the racist right-wing, who play on their fears of permanent poverty and lack of economic opportunities. I for one am not going to indulge in petty name-calling of those who have been duped by economic insecurity or ostracise those 'left-behind by a combination of local and central govt timewasting narcissists - people who are being attracted to the arms of the BNP and other right-wing christo-pats by circumstance.

Direct activisim would seem to be the only way forward at this point, and UAF with it's hierarchy and limitations of action don't seem to be able to offer complete solutions - these people are looking to others to help them, and it's up to us prove to them that the only real solution is to actively help themselves. If they wait for the state, or the BNP, they'll only be let down again.

Just tell us all at urban75, Mr.Page, how is standing outside the Grosvenor Hotel going to help those people who have been fed a diet of anti-immigrant hatred by the BNP? While you're out ranting on doorsteps, the BNP have gained only 112 votes less than the winning Labour candidate in Nuneaton.

The only workable model is a people’s model. One where activists - anarchists, socialists, faith groups, and students - put aside their differences and work side by side in an act of true solidarity. Local Collectives can achieve more in a few months than the UAF can achieve alone in one year. Real solidarity is what is required, not this factionalism for fools.

Left snobbery & the radical right by Emilio Quadrelli
http://info.interactivist.net/article.pl?sid=06/11/25/1745248&mode=nocomment&tid=22

 

[Streathamite]

please everyone read the above post. absolutely spot on and absoloutely superb

 

[audiotech]

The only workable model is a people’s model. One where activists - anarchists, socialists, faith groups, and students - put aside their differences and work side by side in an act of true solidarity.

Good idea.

Some 600 delegates gathered at Unite Against Fascism’s annual conference in central London last Saturday to launch this year’s campaign against the British National Party (BNP).

The Unite conference drew together a wide spectrum of trade union activists, anti-racism campaigners, students, musicians and representatives of faith groups all committed to fighting the BNP at the ballot box and beyond.
http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/article.php?article_id=10784

 

[Streathamite]

that's a wholed new lot of activists alienated by the UK's resident terminally dishonest control-freak apparatchiks then
thank fuck the swappies are such a small irrelevant cult - if they actually had a real working class membership, they'd REALLY boost the BNP
that is to say; on the small offchance that press release isn't the same old lies - and all the 'delegates' were swappies and MABers

 

[yield]

Real solidarity is what is required, not this factionalism for fools.

Great post.

 

[audiotech]

That's just two then who are not putting aside their differences to work side by side in an act of true solidarity.

 

[treelover]

nah, three!

 

[treelover]

wouldn't it be great to see some of these 600 actually do some work on the ground then, instead of blowing even more hot air: challenging the Welfare Reform Bill for instance, attacking New Deal forced labour, gang crime, etc, (oh i forget N/L are part of UAF.)

 

[Reese]

Holocaust

According to some stuff I have been reading all that it needs to defeat the fascists is for them to be exposed as holocaust deniers, is if some skint family in Barking or Burnley gives a f##k about what happened 60 years ago. Most of the young voters have no interest in Hitler and nazis, Hitler wasn't around in their parents lifetime let alone theirs. I know all about the lessons of history etc etc yawn yawn....but some anti-fascists need a serious reality check.

 

[audiotech]

nah, three!

.....

 

[Streathamite]

UAF are the biggest danger to the anti-fash cause that exists.
All it takes is for the BNP to send one of their more 'respectable' reasonable-sounding types to give his pitch to a working-class bloke who's felt the sharp end of our immigration policies, straight after this bunch of bourgeois squeakers have been haranguing him...and that's one more they've won over. the swappies are using the antifash cause for their own cynical ends

 

[KeyboardJockey]

UAF are the biggest danger to the anti-fash cause that exists.
All it takes is for the BNP to send one of their more 'respectable' reasonable-sounding types to give his pitch to a working-class bloke who's felt the sharp end of our immigration policies, straight after this bunch of bourgeois squeakers have been haranguing him...and that's one more they've won over. the swappies are using the antifash cause for their own cynical ends

That is basically what is happening in Barking and Dagenham.