Anti Terror Raids Stop Iraq Style Kidnapping in West Midlands

[Fullyplumped]

and don’t forget that even in Thailand, terrorist attacks happen a lot more often than they do in the UK.

Interesting - Fela Fan, you're on the ground. Does Thailand have any lessons to teach us in old Blighty?

 

[Ae589]

Wouldn't this have been a bit of an own goal? It would have divided the communities, but by picking a muslim, non-muslims would have seen the terrorists drawing a new division: Terrorist nutjobs vs everyone else.

Obviously, everyone vs anything the government has to say on the issue is still a given

 

[likesfish]

terrorists don't really have to make a lot of sense look at the nut job copeland
the lets flood the tube plan was'nt exactly sane but as he'd visted pakistan he was looking for a viable way of causing mass murder.
Unlike the provo's the muslim nutjobs have a whole list of cause's they hate us for.
iraq and afgahistan happened after 9/11

 

[slaar]

This is the crux of it.

Britain needs to take a good look at itself, stop pause and think. It's too easy to just say blair fomented terrorism with his policies, the media go on a feeding frenzy, the muslims are terrorists, and so on.

Why is society so divisive at this point? Where has this hatred developed from? Why is there so much violence? Why are the government bringing in so many laws and measures to control the population? Why is terrorism on the rise? Why have we solved the ira problem of terrorism only to walk straight into another terrorism problem?

I may be wrong since i'm not there, but there always seems to be so much hysteria whipped up by the media after events like this, and far too little objective analysis going on.

Britain looks like it's sinking into a pit.

We haven't 'walked in' to anything. Large Pakistani immigration for many years as a result of post-colonial links has led, in the contect of the radicalisation of Islam especially in that part of the world, as well as recent foreign policy choices, unfortunately to a significant minority of radicalised young muslims in the UK. How to deal with that now, and still keep reasonable attitudes on immigration and plurality, is tricky to say the least.

 

[Firky]

for reasons I stated on the other thread I don't beleive it myself. Scaremongering. Some cleric probably talked about it absent mindedly much like I have talked about putting a bullet in Alistair Campbell's skull was I given the means and chance to, but I don't have police breaking down my door to stop my 'plot'.

Oh they wouldn't lie to us... yeah right, WMDs anyone?

 

[slaar]

for reasons I stated on the other thread I don't beleive it myself. Scaremongering. Some cleric probably talked about it absent mindedly much like I have talked about putting a bullet in Alistair Campbell's skull was I given the means and chance to, but I don't have police breaking down my door to stop my 'plot'.

Oh they wouldn't lie to us... yeah right, WMDs anyone?

Have you actually read any of the coverage on this?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2577831,00.html

Operation Gamble began with intelligence in Britain and abroad. MI5 and officers from every police force have been involved in six months of intelligence and surveillance. The suspects are believed to have travelled round the country staking out potential victims.

This really sounds like one absent minded cleric doesn't it?

 

[Firky]

I have read about half a dozern reports and I don't believe any of it, this is the same people who sent us to war and bumped off David Kelly. The good thing for 'them' is it is an entirely believable concept as the Muslim soldiers are regarded as traitors - that is a believable motive.

Load of bollocks.

 

[Idris2002]

Given that they drove the soviet union out of Afghanistan, Israel out of Lebanon and are in the process of repeating the trick to the US in Iraq, I would take some exception to the comparison with South Armah.

None of those eastern countries were within the territory of the borders of the United Kingdom; South Armagh was and is.

 

[slaar]

I have read about half a dozern reports and I don't believe any of it, this is the same people who sent us to war and bumped off David Kelly. The good thing for 'them' is it is an entirely believable concept as the Muslim soldiers are regarded as traitors - that is a believable motive.

Load of bollocks.

What are you talking about, "the same people"?

This is a police operation, and it looks like a very good one.

 

[Idris2002]

So zero evidence or any offical details to back up the media bollocks of beheadings and similar nonsense.

TBH this is all a bit fishy after John Reid (who's a spit of my drunken grandfather) has had such a moutain of shit this week.

All a bit too convenient to wash away the dirt IMO.

....and who pops up on the telly trying to playing a dodgy hand?

But there's no reason why *both* can't be true - it could be being used to take the heat off Reid (who's a dope smoker, if memory serves, rather than a drunk) and yet at the same time still be a proper, actual plot to kidnap and behead some poor eejit who joined the Bratash Croun Farces.

 

[editor]

I have read about half a dozern reports and I don't believe any of it, this is the same people who sent us to war and bumped off David Kelly. The good thing for 'them' is it is an entirely believable concept as the Muslim soldiers are regarded as traitors - that is a believable motive.

Load of bollocks.

I'm keeping an open mind, but why do you find the notion of this kidnapping so unlikely without even waiting for the trial or for the police evidence emerge?

Do you think what's been alleged is simply impossible for the UK?

 

[slaar]

None of those eastern countries were within the territory of the borders of the United Kingdom; South Armagh was and is.

I agree, but do you think the main difference that it's much easier to monitor coming and goings from Pakistan than within the UK, or is it something else?

 

[Idris2002]

I agree, but do you think the main difference that it's much easier to monitor coming and goings from Pakistan than within the UK, or is it something else?

Um, no. The point I was trying to make was that the PIRA was able to mount much more serious attacks because a) it had an organisation composed of highly skilled cadres, whose skills included technical engineering skills useful for bomb making and b) once the bombs were made it was much easier to smuggle into 'mainland' Britain. (Irish people dislike the use of the word 'mainland' in this context, but I can't think of a better one off the top of my head).

 

[Firky]

I'm keeping an open mind, but why do you find the notion of this kidnapping so unlikely without even waiting for the trial or for the police evidence emerge?

This is my initial knee jerk reaction, the police have done terror raids before, and even shot people, and they got it wrong. To say that it is has nothing to do with the state is rubbish. The police are now more closely affiliated to the government than they have ever been.

The power of fear!

Do you think what's been alleged is simply impossible for the UK?

I think it is a notion that is a notion that is entirely possible, the IRA kidnapped people and I think they even kidnapped an MI5 agent by mistake, Gareth something or another.

 

[slaar]

Um, no. The point I was trying to make was that the PIRA was able to mount much more serious attacks because a) it had an organisation composed of highly skilled cadres, whose skills included technical engineering skills useful for bomb making and b) once the bombs were made it was much easier to smuggle into 'mainland' Britain. (Irish people dislike the use of the word 'mainland' in this context, but I can't think of a better one off the top of my head).

I see. Interesting that this was easier than PIRA cells making bombs in the UK rather than having to smuggle them in.

 

[editor]

This is my initial knee jerk reaction, the police have done terror raids before, and even shot people, and they got it wrong.

They also get it right sometimes as well, you know.

Or do you think the 21/7 (would be) bombers are all innocent?

 

[Idris2002]

I'm talking about the times when they were exploding the really big bombs. In the early days, I think it would have been more a self-assembly thing for the ASUs.

 

[tim]

They also get it right sometimes as well, you know.

Or do you think the 21/7 (would be) bombers are all innocent?

The problem is the way that these things are spun by the authorities, who clearly do have their own agenda makes it difficult to assess how real any supposed threat is.

Again we have the anonymous "police sources", and Sky news claims.

According to reports citing anonymous police sources, the alleged plot would have involved an "Iraq-style" kidnapping, with a member of the public being snatched from the street and held hostage.

Sky News claimed the kidnapping would have been followed by the release of a video plea by the victim and a series of demands from the kidnappers.

I remember 7/7 but I also remember Stockwell.

 

[TAE]

The problem is the way that these things are spun by the authorities, who clearly do have their own agenda makes it difficult to assess how real any supposed threat is.

Absolutely.

"This operation is a reminder of the real and serious nature of the terrorist threat we face," a (home office) spokeswoman said.

She seems to be assuming "arrest = guilt".

 

[fela fan]

Interesting - Fela Fan, you're on the ground. Does Thailand have any lessons to teach us in old Blighty?

Well, the one terrorist incident that yossarian is referring to (on new years eve just gone) is suspected to have been instigated by politicians who fell by the wayside after the coup last year.

So, maybe it's the same in britain?

 

[fela fan]

We haven't 'walked in' to anything. Large Pakistani immigration for many years as a result of post-colonial links has led, in the contect of the radicalisation of Islam especially in that part of the world, as well as recent foreign policy choices, unfortunately to a significant minority of radicalised young muslims in the UK. How to deal with that now, and still keep reasonable attitudes on immigration and plurality, is tricky to say the least.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but all this new brand of terrorism has only been going on subsequent to 911

And in fact the whole lot of it, suicide bombers and stuff has only been going on since the cold war ended.

It's a method of madness created/conducted by the US/UK/Israel thugs running these countries that was required with no apparant enemies anymore after the fall of the iron curtain.

 

[slaar]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but all this new brand of terrorism has only been going on subsequent to 911

And in fact the whole lot of it, suicide bombers and stuff has only been going on since the cold war ended.

It's a method of madness created/conducted by the US/UK/Israel thugs running these countries that was required with no apparant enemies anymore after the fall of the iron curtain.

What on earth are you talking about?

 

[oake]

Blair interviewed for second time

Tony Blair was questioned by police for a second time over cash-for-honours allegations, it emerged today.

The prime minister was questioned for less than an hour by officers last Friday, but the police requested a news blackout, according to Downing Street.

News of the interview, which took place without a lawyer and not under caution, only emerged from the prime minister's official spokesman today.

Mr Blair's original interview was the first time a serving prime minister had been quizzed by the police.

Scotland Yard refused to comment on why it had requested a news blackout on the interview with Mr Blair until today. "We have nothing to say at the moment," a spokeswoman said.

Link

Interesting timing.....

 

[Dhimmi]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but all this new brand of terrorism has only been going on subsequent to 911

And in fact the whole lot of it, suicide bombers and stuff has only been going on since the cold war ended.

It's a method of madness created/conducted by the US/UK/Israel thugs running these countries that was required with no apparant enemies anymore after the fall of the iron curtain.

You're wrong.

The suicide bombing of US troops in Beirut was in '83

The kidnapping, torture and murder of Ravindra Mhatre, a Indian diplomat, in Birmingham by British Kashmiri militants was in '84.

The fall of the Iron Curtain was in '91.

 

[Badger Kitten]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but all this new brand of terrorism has only been going on subsequent to 911

And in fact the whole lot of it, suicide bombers and stuff has only been going on since the cold war ended.

It's a method of madness created/conducted by the US/UK/Israel thugs running these countries that was required with no apparant enemies anymore after the fall of the iron curtain.

Oh, spare us the delusional ''synthetic terror'' bollocks conspiracy theories, pur-lease.

WTF is the point of denying that the problem exists?

Yeah, sometimes the police get it wrong and release people without charge. Or on one terrible occasion, shoot an innocent man. That doesn't mean that the problem doesn't exist and the Governments of Israel, the US and the UK are pretending and practising a massive deception and faking all the terror attacks themselves.

 

[slaar]

You're wrong.

The suicide bombing of US troops in Beirut was in '83

The kidnapping, torture and murder of Ravindra Mhatre, a Indian diplomat, in Birmingham by British Kashmiri militants was in '84.

The fall of the Iron Curtain was in '91.

Quite.

No doubt, the triumphalism of the fall of the iron curtain and US imperialist adventures, combined with the much deeper faultlines the end of the cold war exposed (between modern and pre-modern movements instead of conflict between modern communist and capitalist hegemonies for example) has been a significant feature of the last 15 years.

But to suggest that this started in 2001 is ridiculous.

 

[Yossarian]

Well, the one terrorist incident that yossarian is referring to (on new years eve just gone) is suspected to have been instigated by politicians who fell by the wayside after the coup last year.

So, maybe it's the same in britain?

Well, there's the New Year's Eve bombings...and the bombs that killed six people in Hat Yai in September last year, and the previous bombings in Hat Yai, and in Songhkla, and the dozens of other bombings and other attacks in the southern provinces in recent years, and the grenades that got fired at the Daily News building in Bangkok just a couple of days ago...

 

[Idris2002]

Genuine question for detective-boy in particular and everyone else in general:

After what happened to the Birmingham Six, was anything put in place to stop something similar happening again?

If so, what did it consist of? Was it, in your opinion, effective? If so, why?

 

[likesfish]

think pace would probably make a birmingham 6 difficult to pull off taped interviews make it much harder to beat a confession out of someone
not impossible but more unlikely plus dna evidence so no dna might make harder toget a conviction as well

 

[detective-boy]

So zero evidence or any offical details to back up the media bollocks of beheadings and similar nonsense.

You lot are fucking priceless ... if you haven't personally been delivered a full bundle of all the evidence necessary for a conviction within five minutes of arrest you believe it's all bollocks.

It may be, or it may not. But the fact there are no official details released at this stage proves nothing.

THERE NEVER FUCKING WILL BE. IT'S THE WAY IT WORKS.

Got it?