Anti Terror Raids Stop Iraq Style Kidnapping in West Midlands
- Thread starter slaar
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kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
If it's the case that the potential target was a muslim soldier the message is pretty obvious: if you're a muslim you shouldn't be serving the UK state, and if you do we'll kidnap and kill you. Looks like the possible intention was to further radicalise/cow various sections of the UKs muslim community.
BTW Dash - there was a survey conducted some time ago amoung those who self-identify as Muslim that, if the numbers were extrapolated to the UKs whole muslim population, would mean approximately 100,000 thought the 7/7 bombings were 'justified', and about 20,000 who felt that attacking civilian targets in the UK was 'acceptable'.
20,000 people is 1/6 the size of the US troop commitment in Iraq, or the population of a small-medium size town. Even if 10% of these decided to actually take some form of violent action that means 2,000 people potentially working on terrorist activities. Or if you want to be overly dramatic, 2,000 potential suicide bombers maybe? Hell, even if you take that down to 10% it's still 200 possibles.
I was thinking about this a couple of nights ago; about how few people it takes to actually do this - admittedly it takes a far wider spread of people in the community to let it go on, but even taking that 20,000 number, I can see why security bods constantly say that there is a serious issue in the UK.
BTW Dash - there was a survey conducted some time ago amoung those who self-identify as Muslim that, if the numbers were extrapolated to the UKs whole muslim population, would mean approximately 100,000 thought the 7/7 bombings were 'justified', and about 20,000 who felt that attacking civilian targets in the UK was 'acceptable'.
20,000 people is 1/6 the size of the US troop commitment in Iraq, or the population of a small-medium size town. Even if 10% of these decided to actually take some form of violent action that means 2,000 people potentially working on terrorist activities. Or if you want to be overly dramatic, 2,000 potential suicide bombers maybe? Hell, even if you take that down to 10% it's still 200 possibles.
I was thinking about this a couple of nights ago; about how few people it takes to actually do this - admittedly it takes a far wider spread of people in the community to let it go on, but even taking that 20,000 number, I can see why security bods constantly say that there is a serious issue in the UK.
editor
hiraethified
I think you're wrong, actually. It's only a 'graveyard' because people don't bother posting in the right forums.treelover said:
And how long before this thread gets pushed off the front page by the usual slew of daft posts in the general forum?
Oh, and there's currently 12 people viewing this forum making it the *fourth* busiest right now.
kyser_soze - I was thinking about this as well, and noticed the gap between such numbers and how much 'direct action' actually takes place.
I'm not talking about spectaculars, I'm talking about how many synagogues get attacked, how many sabotage attempts there are against train lines, how many islamists take part in things like the anti-denmark protests in trafalgar square.
The facts on the ground simply do not support the idea that the UK has large numbers of hate filled violent islamists.
I'm not talking about spectaculars, I'm talking about how many synagogues get attacked, how many sabotage attempts there are against train lines, how many islamists take part in things like the anti-denmark protests in trafalgar square.
The facts on the ground simply do not support the idea that the UK has large numbers of hate filled violent islamists.
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
Following Forest Gate, the Ricin gang, the SAM missiles at heathrow, the 'bomb in a drink - stop all flights' scare and the De Menezes shooting its surely safest to utterly ignore whatever line the media are being fed by the cops and wait and see if actual charges and convictions materilaise.
The vast majority of arrests under the terrorism acts have resulted in zero convictions (other than for unrelated immigration offences).
The vast majority of arrests under the terrorism acts have resulted in zero convictions (other than for unrelated immigration offences).
If this is as it's been reported, then it's very serious. A kidnap and beheading would provoke one hell of a backlash. It would probably provoke trouble within the Muslim community, and it would give the BNP and its like a field day.
However, kaka tim is right. Most of the high-profile arrests and terrorism scares have come to nothing, so let's wait and see if anything more solid comes out.
However, kaka tim is right. Most of the high-profile arrests and terrorism scares have come to nothing, so let's wait and see if anything more solid comes out.
I can't believe you are actually so stupid as to believe that if they were guilty (and no-one knows yet) all their friends and family would be gueueing up to say "Oh yeah, I knew he was a bad 'un from the start" and "He's a extremeist nutter and no mistake" and "He was discussing blowing up the Houses of Parliament only last week ... showed me his bomb as it happens" ...TAE said:
untethered
For industry & decency
detective-boy said:
Indeed. What's all this "I can vouch for him" stuff?
The criminal justice system doesn't work according to character references, but by examining the evidence (or lack thereof).
Idris2002
Stay Alive in '25
likesfish said:pull a murder like that and there would be a reaction and I for one would'nt be joining any lets be nice to muslim marches
Murder or no murder, think long and hard before you go down that road, mo chairde: http://www.cain.ulst.ac.uk
If ye ha' been where we ha' been
Ye widnae be sae canty-oh.
If ye ha' seen wha' we ha' seen,
On thae banks ay Killy-crankyoh.
Idris2002
Stay Alive in '25
Actually, thinking about the comparison with NI a bit further. The Provisionals had a strong organisation and a lot of technical ability (some of it from people with Brit army experience). These Islamists are a bunch of amateurs by comparison.
In south Armagh, the PIRA could drown on a reserve of people with technical skill in metalwork and light engineering, because of the area's status as a centre of commercial agriculture.
Which is why by the 1990s they were able to explode bombs that could take out whole city centres. The Islamists meanwhile, can't even get their chapati flour bombs to work (which is not to minimise the horror of the bombs that did work, or the experience of the people targetted by the flour bomb boys).
I'd say you have nothing to fear but fear itself.
In south Armagh, the PIRA could drown on a reserve of people with technical skill in metalwork and light engineering, because of the area's status as a centre of commercial agriculture.
Which is why by the 1990s they were able to explode bombs that could take out whole city centres. The Islamists meanwhile, can't even get their chapati flour bombs to work (which is not to minimise the horror of the bombs that did work, or the experience of the people targetted by the flour bomb boys).
I'd say you have nothing to fear but fear itself.
Idris2002 said:
you're underestimating them - they are rather advanced - in fact the IRA were shite when they started out - the various insurgents in Iraq have progressed more in a couple of years than the IRA did in several decades - they've got the support of various nations & training camps in northern pakistan & afghanistan etc..
this sort of thing, if true, is very worrying - sure they're going for a muslim soldier - presumably viewing him as some sort of apostate/traitor but the groups in Iraq don't have a problem with simply killing any random westerners - bet there are a few over here who share their views.
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
The great ricin plot came to nothing alright, but many others are still awaiting trial. (And even the ricin plot led to a murder conviction.) There was that nutter sentanced to 40 years for planning to bomb Tube tunnels under the Thames.Roadkill said:
I have no doubt that the authorities play up public fear for all it's worth, but neither do I have any doubt that there are genuine terrorists inspired to murder by a hateful ideology. Their ultimate numbers and effectiveness remain to be seen.
If this plot is true, damn good work by the police.
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
DrRingDing said:They should be kidnapping MP's and realted media suits that promoted the war and behead the cunts live on t'interweb.
That'll be better than Big Brother.
Although saying that you can't beat the Face man.
I wonder in general about how many of these "terrorists" arrested are just people making stupid statements like the above.
dylanredefined
Not a house elf a tiger
If it turns out to be a credible threat and not some internet chat room fantasy hope they get locked up for a long time .Could have caused horrible
problems in this country let alone being a dreadful death for the victim.
problems in this country let alone being a dreadful death for the victim.
It's one of the tabloid media's standard approaches! It's always pretty amusing to look back when someone is eventually found guilty (or even pleads guilty), to watch again all the friends and family saying "But he's always really nice to his old mum!"untethered said:
It's a double-edged sword though. There is no doubt that the disorganised / ineffective approach means there is perhaps less threat from each group minded to launch some sort of attack ... but the disparate nature of the plans, and the lack of apparent connections between the groups makes them very, very hard to defend against.slaar said:
With PIRA, if you took out (or infiltrated) a unit, you usually got a significant amount of information which helped find others (or at least gave you an idea of what they might look like and how they might operate). Now, if you take out one group you are usually none the wiser about anything else.
They old saying "You've got to be lucky every time, we've only got to be lucky once" has never been truer ...
bluestreak
HomosexualityIsStalin’sAtomBombtoDestroyAmerica
at least the IRA could pull off a decent bit of terror. muslim nutters are rubbish.
DrRingDing
'anti-human wanker'
So zero evidence or any offical details to back up the media bollocks of beheadings and similar nonsense.
TBH this is all a bit fishy after John Reid (who's a spit of my drunken grandfather) has had such a moutain of shit this week.
All a bit too convenient to wash away the dirt IMO.
....and who pops up on the telly trying to playing a dodgy hand?
TBH this is all a bit fishy after John Reid (who's a spit of my drunken grandfather) has had such a moutain of shit this week.
All a bit too convenient to wash away the dirt IMO.
....and who pops up on the telly trying to playing a dodgy hand?
DexterTCN
Troy and Abed in the morning
I'm afraid I find myself agreeing, at the moment, with DrRingDing.
Levy arrested, Reid struggling. It's happened again and again...tanks at Heathrow and the others mentioned on this thread any time Blair and his mates are struggling.
I'm afraid I take more convincing than a 12 hour media assault.
And if it turns out that they were plotting something then they are no more representative of Muslims than IRA/UVF killers represent Catholics or Protestants.
Levy arrested, Reid struggling. It's happened again and again...tanks at Heathrow and the others mentioned on this thread any time Blair and his mates are struggling.
I'm afraid I take more convincing than a 12 hour media assault.
And if it turns out that they were plotting something then they are no more representative of Muslims than IRA/UVF killers represent Catholics or Protestants.
david dissadent
New Member
Perhpas it would be usefull to drop the term 'Wahabbist' as on the whole it is pretty indescriminate and inaccurate. For those hell bent on violent jihad and following ultra orthodox interperitaitons of the Koran the term Takfiri is more appropriate and it stops from roping in all of the non violent Salafists.dash said:
The term Wahabism is used to indiscriminantly group together a wide and diverse group of Muslims, many of who do not follow or are quite opposed to some of the teachings of Muhammad ibn Abd al Wahhab. It is sort of like calling every protestant a Lutherian.
david dissadent
New Member
Given that they drove the soviet union out of Afghanistan, Israel out of Lebanon and are in the process of repeating the trick to the US in Iraq, I would take some exception to the comparison with South Armah.Idris2002 said:
But given it is supposed to be a global terror network blah blah blah then the provos deffinently are vastly superior at carrying the fight to the enemies capital. Had some of the bombs like Canary Warf been aimed at killing people then they would have long since surpassed 9/11 death toll.
and Id say stay of there land and youd be pretty damned right.Idris2002 said:
dylanredefined
Not a house elf a tiger
They only won in afgan as they were being bankrolled by the USA not doing
so well without super power funding .
Kicked the israels out cant keep them out .And iraq isnt over yet unfortunatly .
so well without super power funding .
Kicked the israels out cant keep them out .And iraq isnt over yet unfortunatly
.extra dry said:there will be an attack somewhere in the uk soon..just too much hate going round.
This is the crux of it.
Britain needs to take a good look at itself, stop pause and think. It's too easy to just say blair fomented terrorism with his policies, the media go on a feeding frenzy, the muslims are terrorists, and so on.
Why is society so divisive at this point? Where has this hatred developed from? Why is there so much violence? Why are the government bringing in so many laws and measures to control the population? Why is terrorism on the rise? Why have we solved the ira problem of terrorism only to walk straight into another terrorism problem?
I may be wrong since i'm not there, but there always seems to be so much hysteria whipped up by the media after events like this, and far too little objective analysis going on.
Britain looks like it's sinking into a pit.
fela fan said:
Rising Islamic extremism massive exacerbated by the government’s idiocy in backing George Bush’s foreign policy would be the quick answer. Things are clearly far from perfect but I don’t think any of this is that particular to Britain - there have been plots not all that different uncovered in Canada and Australia in the recent past, and don’t forget that even in Thailand, terrorist attacks happen a lot more often than they do in the UK.
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