Anti-Sharia Rally called by OneLawForAll Nov21st 2009 London

[invisibleplanet]

Jeremy Zeid protesting in Harrow AGAINST the EDL and defending moderate Sharia panels.

 

[smokedout]

You total cowards

nah, they're the cowards - a strong statement against all religious oppression and religious tribunals would have been brave

this looks like opportunitism on the part of the (leninist as far as i can tell) iranian workers communist party (IWCP - i aint typing that again), who seem to make up half the speakers with a handful of the usual suspects and a couple of nulab apologists bandwaggoning

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

One wonders how the EDL will be treated if they turn up to support this...

Not very well, I would hope. As I said, the likes of Alibhai Brown or whoever really don't deserve to be lumped in with the EDL and so on

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

Seriously though, I reckon you've got to be a fucking fucking total retarded fucktard if you think people like YAB are BNP Apologist anti muslim racists.

Sometimes I think people on here are so obsessed with being anti establishment that they lose all reason

 

[smokedout]

Seriously though, I reckon you've got to be a fucking fucking total retarded fucktard if you think people like YAB are BNP Apologist anti muslim racists.

and who said any such thing?

 

[invisibleplanet]

unless they are calling for an end top all religious tribunals (which they are technically, although there's nothing about the beth din or the disestablishment of the church on their website) then however well intentioned this might be it will always look to some as more muslim bashing

It's safe to infer that Beth Din are also in the firing line.
Listen to conservative councillior Jeremy Zeid's statement above.

 

[october_lost]

Sometimes I think people on here are so obsessed with being anti establishment that they lose all reason

Hit the nail on the head. If you support secularism as a good thing you will see idiots arguing your linning up against the oppressed (see jonti's post), which is bollocks. The left once had the balls to not patronise people because they belong to a set ethnic/religious group and treat them all with kids gloves. Do you seriously think arse kissing imams and mullahs is going to break ordinary muslims from the religious authories who provide them with bogus leadership? Respect, GG and STWC have put a political alternative back in this country years by continual pushing communal politics. Political islam as a vehicle for political change as to be challenged, on a class basis, otherwise it is reactionary.

 

[Brainaddict]

Seriously though, I reckon you've got to be a fucking fucking total retarded fucktard if you think people like YAB are BNP Apologist anti muslim racists.

I don't think they're racist. I think they'd rather be right, and propagate their notion of right, rather than think democratically.

I'd much rather have multiple systems of justice under the state umbrella than a single system of justice which I have to buy into whether I want to or not.

And if you're going to have multiple systems of justice, then some of them are ones you're going to disagree with. Bite the fucking bullet. And if you want to fight a particular justice system that people want to sign up to, don't use the state to do that. I don't feel like I'm the one being a coward

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Seriously though, I reckon you've got to be a fucking fucking total retarded fucktard if you think people like YAB are BNP Apologist anti muslim racists.

Sometimes I think people on here are so obsessed with being anti establishment that they lose all reason

yeah, that really sums up all the issues, "they must be racists"

 

[derf]

The rally aims to raise still further our opposition to Sharia and religious-based laws in Britain and the world, including the imposition of Sharia this year in Somalia and Pakistan's Swat region and of the ‘rape laws’ in Afghanistan. It also aims to show our solidarity with people standing up to political Islam everywhere, including in Iran, and our support for universal rights and secularism. The rally will also defend the right to asylum for those who have fled Sharia and calls for an end to racism and cultural relativism.

Why are religious based courts so bad? Many are simply used to guide through a problem, often with better results than a normal court and with the consent of all involved.
Sharia banking is almost untouched by the banking scandal as it does not allow the sort of extreme greed that was rife in the US banking system.

Now, when it comes to stoning to death, I'll agree it's bad news but don't lump it all together. Why do I see BNP support for this one?

 

[Fictionist]

Read again big brain

Big? Big?

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

and who said any such thing?

Citigirl just for starters, called YAB a racist apologist and supporter of the British establishment.. Yet I can't imagine she'd be at all welcome at a BNP convention

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

I'd much rather have multiple systems of justice under the state umbrella than a single system of justice which I have to buy into whether I want to or not.

And if you're going to have multiple systems of justice, then some of them are ones you're going to disagree with. Bite the fucking bullet. And if you want to fight a particular justice system that people want to sign up to, don't use the state to do that. I don't feel like I'm the one being a coward

I didn't say anyone was being a coward though. I just feel that people aren't really thinking this through properly

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

Why are religious based courts so bad? Many are simply used to guide through a problem, often with better results than a normal court and with the consent of all involved.
Sharia banking is almost untouched by the banking scandal as it does not allow the sort of extreme greed that was rife in the US banking system.

Now, when it comes to stoning to death, I'll agree it's bad news but don't lump it all together. Why do I see BNP support for this one?

The BNP won't be supporting this though. They'll be supporting the EFL wankers, but that's another matter.

 

[In Bloom]

Why are religious based courts so bad? Many are simply used to guide through a problem, often with better results than a normal court and with the consent of all involved.
Sharia banking is almost untouched by the banking scandal as it does not allow the sort of extreme greed that was rife in the US banking system.

Now, when it comes to stoning to death, I'll agree it's bad news but don't lump it all together. Why do I see BNP support for this one?

You tell 'em derf, what reasonable person could object to a legal system were female witnesses are treated as less reliable than male ones?

 

[invisibleplanet]

You tell 'em derf, what reasonable person could object to a legal system were female witnesses are treated as less reliable than male ones?

Rape cases are not tried in British Sharia or Beth Din courts, they are tried in the mainstream civil legal system. Crimes against the person, as in Domestic Violence etc, wouldn't be heard in religious courts. In cases where there is a violent husband and wife seeking divorce, then comments from others (witnesses) whether male or female are treated equally.

Your comment is therefore inapplicable.

You've sensationally skewed the way religious courts work in UK. These religious community courts only conduct arbitration on family/community matters. If people are unhappy with decisions, they can take their case through the mainstream civil court (at a price, of course!).

 

[In Bloom]

These religious community courts only conduct arbitration on family/community matters.

And applying a legal system that is patriarchical to the core to family and community matters doesn't strike you as a wee bit problematic?

 

[In Bloom]

I don't think they're racist. I think they'd rather be right, and propagate their notion of right, rather than think democratically.

I'd much rather have multiple systems of justice under the state umbrella than a single system of justice which I have to buy into whether I want to or not.

And if you're going to have multiple systems of justice, then some of them are ones you're going to disagree with. Bite the fucking bullet. And if you want to fight a particular justice system that people want to sign up to, don't use the state to do that. I don't feel like I'm the one being a coward

If you're going to accept the notion of justice, then things are either just or they are injust. Multiple, mutually contradictory systems of justice cannot exist alongside each other without perpetuating injustice from one point of view or another and the simple fact of the matter is that not all points of view are equally valid.

 

[invisibleplanet]

When did you become a fan of the mainstream legal system, InBloom?
What do you think will be gained by banning all arbitration tribunals?

Are you for banning First Nation and other non-western-law based tribunals as well as Jewish and Muslim tribunals too?

 

[In Bloom]

When did you become a fan of the mainstream legal system, InBloom?

There's a difference between pointing out the incoherency of arguments in favour of Sharia courts and being "a fan of the mainstream legal system".

Of course, I apologise if I was wrong in assuming that you possessed the requisite intelligence to be able to make that distinction without it being pointed out to you.

 

[invisibleplanet]

If you're going to accept the notion of justice, then things are either just or they are injust. Multiple, mutually contradictory systems of justice cannot exist alongside each other without perpetuating injustice from one point of view or another and the simple fact of the matter is that not all points of view are equally valid.

They're not contradictory systems of justice though, are they? They work within the law of the land, not outside of it.

 

[invisibleplanet]

There's a difference between pointing out the incoherency of arguments in favour of Sharia courts and being "a fan of the mainstream legal system".

Of course, I apologise if I was wrong in assuming that you possessed the requisite intelligence to be able to make that distinction without it being pointed out to you.

Make this same argument using Beth Din in UK and North America as your first example.
Then make this same argument using First Nation tribunals in North America as your second example.

 

[In Bloom]

They're not contradictory systems of justice though, are they? They work within the law of the land, not outside of it.

So Sharia law is identical to UK secular civil law then?

 

[invisibleplanet]

There's a difference between pointing out the incoherency of arguments in favour of Sharia courts and being "a fan of the mainstream legal system".

Of course, I apologise if I was wrong in assuming that you possessed the requisite intelligence to be able to make that distinction without it being pointed out to you.

You want to ban Beth Din and Sharia courts, In Bloom. No doubt you want to ban Halal/Kashrut too (adminstered through that same religious legal system).

How long have you been pretending you're not antisemitic? Pretend no more, and admit the truth - you can only see 'the western way' as 'the way'. There are other 'ways' to deal with disputes and legally we have a right to these other 'ways'.

 

[In Bloom]

Make this same argument using Beth Din in UK and North America as your first example.
Then make this same argument using First Nation tribunals in North America as your second example.

Since the argument would be essentially the same for the former and I don't actually know what the latter is, I don't feel the need to.

I'm by no means of the opinion that the state can or should prevent religious authorities from arbitrating in disputes between believers, as long as religion exists, it's pretty much innevitable. I'm more bothered by people defending religious courts and communitarian politics.

 

[invisibleplanet]

So Sharia law is identical to UK secular civil law then?

Still waiting for you to include Beth Din in your focus - it's not appropriate for you to continue the pretence that your campaign can leave Beth Din untouched.

 

[In Bloom]

You want to ban Beth Din and Sharia courts, In Bloom. No doubt you want to ban Halal/Kashrut too (adminstered through that same religious legal system).

How long have you been pretending you're not antisemitic? Pretend no more, and admit the truth - you can only see 'the western way' as 'the way'. There are other 'ways' to deal with disputes and legally we have a right to these other 'ways'.

Oh fuck off.

 

[invisibleplanet]

Oh fuck off.

No, you fuck off and do some proper research.
You cannot see the consequences of your popularist campaign clearly.

 

[In Bloom]

No, you fuck off and do some proper research.
You cannot see the consequences of your popularist campaign clearly.

My campaign? What campaign is that then?

 

[invisibleplanet]

My campaign? What campaign is that then?

Go and do some proper research and think very carefully about the consequences, Mr. Popularist Bandwagon.