It's more difficult when someone is spouting out about 'acceptable' theories about the Jews, and I have to try and stop my Jewish comrade from wanting to smash their teeth in. And I'm on his side, not theirs.
Anti Fracking Protector Camps
- Thread starter Jeremiah18.17
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It's more difficult when someone is spouting out about 'acceptable' theories about the Jews, and I have to try and stop my Jewish comrade from wanting to smash their teeth in. And I'm on his side, not theirs.
Is Islamophobia ever couched as an argument between rational lefties and irrational ones, out of interest?
I've been around this stuff a bit and generally people talk about the NWO or the Illuminati. Tavistock and Common Purpose are quite popular as with all the Freeman of theLand stuff. It's not acceptable (in my view) to blame it on the Jews but sometimes when people say Annunaki lizard they mean Annunaki lizard. The most comprehensive anti-semitism I've been exposed to (Holocaust denial, Rothschilds the whole bit) came from some little hippy thing in fairy wings at the Sunrise festival. I suppose I could have smashed her teeth in but it wouldn't have looked good.
Muslims tend to appear only as unwitting subjects of the conspiracy. Whether the conspirators are Zionists or cultural Marxists or whatever.
The problem (whether the truthers realise it or not when they do as you explain) is that they push anti-Semitic tropes and replace 'jew' with illuminati or whatever. However, There's lots of blatant anti-Semitic stuff now doing the rounds as everything is ZOG. Why should I differentiate between a Nationalist promoting that and some hippy doing the same? Don't forget both sides are anti-capitalist.
I guess one difference would be whether they were knowingly pushing anti-semitism. When you start to decode any refernce to 'international banking' as an anti semitic trope then you're off in the deep end.
That said, I'd like to emphasise something butchersapron said earlier, the vast majority of people at the anti fracking sites are just straight up environmentalists. Even at the wackier end you're more likely hear about tree spirits and leylines than ZOG and the lizards.
You're explaining It to me with the assumption that I don't have personal experience with it, but I do. And whilst I accept they're not card carrying Hitler Worshippers the amount of news stories they're blaming on 'Mossad' or 'Jews', is frankly frightening and if you don't agree with that I'd either question your lived experience with these people or your commitment to anti-fascist politics.
Now, now. I'm only talking from my experience and I'm not suggesting you haven't had similar experiences. Who do you define as 'these people'? Anti-frackers or the whole Anonymous/ Occupy/ Truther / Freeman crowd?
Libertad
Sparking up a rollie in the Reichstag
When did that happen?
Anyway this is a full on derail 
Of course (this is Urban) but if people walk away thinking that anti- fracking campaigners are a bunch of anti semitic loons that'll obviously have an impact on their efforts.Anyway this is a full on derail
A LOT of them think that way. I'm not suggesting not to get involved with anti-fracking because of it. In fact it's single issue causes like that where you're most likely to come into contact with them. But do we leave our anti-fascist politics at the door or something?
Of course not, I hope nothing I've said suggests that I'm nodding along happily as these views are being expressed. But they're the kind of spaces where you win by argument rather than fist fighting.
You think when people say views are 'challenged' they mean 'fist fighting'?
I'm pleased you appear to have shifted from your earlier liberal view that the mix of anti-authoritarian types was 'invigorating' whilst ignoring or giving a free ride to the disparity of views they may be espousing.
Well you mentioned smashing someones teeth in. How were you (or your mate) going to do that?
I've never said I'd give anyone a 'free ride'. I've stood up and disrupted a David Shayler talk, and been denounced as a stooge of the state for my pains. I've had a lot of arguments with people. What I find invigorating is that a movement with a lot of different opinions in it is chaotic and messy but it's also in ferment and alive.
The mate in question is Jewish. I presume you understand why his reaction to holocaust denial and Jewish conspiracy stuff generally might be volatile. Do people need to be identified as bona fide fascists anyway to be racially offensive?
So you did bring the idea of fist fighting first?
You still haven't said what your experience was. Did you spend some time at Barton Moss or something?
I was talking about one person's reaction to it not suggesting a strategy of violence like you appeared to make.
Why are you now doing a credentials check? They're EVERYWHERE. Any kind of broad based anti-establishment organising. They were there at Occupy and they're there at anything else I'm involved with, including anti-fascism.
Interesting that if you google Conspiraloons Occupy it leads back to a thread here from a few years ago.
'Conspiraloons' in the ascendancy?
'Conspiraloons' in the ascendancy?
I've never encountered it in anti-fascism.(Although some of us hold pro-Palestinian beliefs that others might call anti-semitic).
You have never encountered any of the ZOG types skirting the edges? I am surprised.
No, not even slightly. Do you mean some of Facebook AntiFa?
No I mean ones I've met in real life. It's amusing that you think my activity is limited to social media, but that doesn't mean I'll give you (and everyone reading) clues as to who I am. Security culture is a thing. Perhaps not for you but that's your prerogative.
I think you're just making unwarranted allegations and refusing to back them up.
Someone asked if there was anti-semitism in the anti-fracking movement. I said there was but it was because anti-fracking attracted conspiracy theorists. You also confirmed that anti-fracking attracted conspiracy theorists at Balcombe. Given your experience reflects mine, how are they 'unwarranted allegations'?
I guess I don't as readily accept that conspiracy theorists automatically equal anti semites. It's not like it's a monolithic belief system, quite the opposite.
It was your assertion that there are proponents of the ZOG hypothesis within organised anti-fascism that could do with back up.
They do tend to buy it all, in my experience, rather than just cherry pick theories. They're the enlightened after all.
Not going to back up the anti fascist claim for obvious reasons. But I wasn't alluding to the afn.
And besides, I've witnessed them spouting this stuff. I've challenged them on it too. Fell out with someone over it. I'm not just saying conspiracy theorist = anti-semite. But it is because they're conspiracy theorists that they come out with this stuff.
some arrests at a camp local to me
Dorking grandmother among five arrested at Brockham oil well
this is separate to the fracking site at Leith Hill that kabbes has been posting about in another thread but is not far from it. I believe it is the same group of protestors roughly.
This site is also a couple of miles away from the Brockham site and has had arrests etc but people found not guilty. lets hope same outcome for this weeks arrests
Nine Horse Hill protesters found not guilty
Dorking grandmother among five arrested at Brockham oil well
this is separate to the fracking site at Leith Hill that kabbes has been posting about in another thread but is not far from it. I believe it is the same group of protestors roughly.
This site is also a couple of miles away from the Brockham site and has had arrests etc but people found not guilty. lets hope same outcome for this weeks arrests
Nine Horse Hill protesters found not guilty
kabbes
First intersubjective, then internalised
When the "protectors" first appeared at Leith Hill, I wondered down to have a chat with them. It was hard, though, because they only had a vague idea of the specifics of the case and in many cases were just totally incorrect in their understanding, but were also unwilling to let go of the conspiracies they believed surrounded it. (There are actually genuine "conspiracies" involved, but these are much more prosaic collusions than the notions I was hearing). We've had to spend a lot of time undoing the misinformation that has been spread. With a lot of success, though, on the plus side -- I have seen the messaging gradually transition over the months they have been there. And I still maintain a belief that everybody who is trying to protect an area is fundamentally on the same side and can work with their own strengths to help the cause.
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