butchersapron
Bring back hanging
urbanrevolt said:
Take united action with labour and the tories? Who else? What sort of united action do you envisage as being possible with them?
Anti Fascist Protest outside Oxford Union?
- Thread starter grogwilton
- Start date
Take united action with labour and the tories? Who else? What sort of united action do you envisage as being possible with them?
urbanrevolt
New Member
I mean it's not wrong to go on a UAF protest even if Labour supporters are there- we should take united action against fascists, for strikes, against cuts etc even with LP members! This isn't the same as giving political support to the Labour gov- not sure where Tories come into it
cockneyrebel
New Member
The UAF is an alliance of anyone but the BNP, so the UAF line is to vote for anyone to stop the BNP, including the Tories and UKIP. The UAF has signed up supporters from the Tories and Orangemen.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
urbanrevolt said:
The Tories helped put in place the agneda that new labour have followed, deepened even, and they're amongst the founding members of UAF.
I'm not interested in taking part on UAF actions full stop. And partly because of this sort of stuff - the labour party and the tories (and the unionists for what it's worth) should be chased away from any anti-fascist activity worth the name for a) putting in place the condtions that have led to the growth of the BNP and b) blocking the path ot indepenednt working class political action, which is the only way out of this. I'm not uniting with some defence of the status quo, bourgeois democracy and sensible capitalism thanks.
cockneyrebel
New Member
Surely you'd have a united front with people like John McDonnell though?
The Black Hand
Unclean
here is a call out from Oxford Indymedia:
CALLING ALL ANTI FASCISTS!!!
On Monday the 26th of November, BNP leader Nick Griffin and proffesional holocaust denier (and discredited historian) David Irving will be giving a talk in Oxford.
There will be a demo outside the Oxford Union (see their website for directions) starting at 7pm.
Last week, Carlo, a young anti-fascist was killed in action by a nazi in Madrid. Solidarity demos have been taking place all over Europe. Lets remember him by getting down to Oxford and forming a strong and militant anti-fascist presence to let these murdering nazi bastrads know how we feel about Carlos death!
See you there.
CALLING ALL ANTI FASCISTS!!!
On Monday the 26th of November, BNP leader Nick Griffin and proffesional holocaust denier (and discredited historian) David Irving will be giving a talk in Oxford.
There will be a demo outside the Oxford Union (see their website for directions) starting at 7pm.
Last week, Carlo, a young anti-fascist was killed in action by a nazi in Madrid. Solidarity demos have been taking place all over Europe. Lets remember him by getting down to Oxford and forming a strong and militant anti-fascist presence to let these murdering nazi bastrads know how we feel about Carlos death!
See you there.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Defend Oxford University.
urbanrevolt
New Member
butchersapron said:
This I think is teribly sectarian and mistaken approach to workers in trade unions and the Labour Party. I presume you were referring to trade unionists here "and the unionists for what it's worth" and not the loyalists in north of Ireland?
I agree that "independent working class political action" is absolutely necessary and fundamental to stopping the BNP- I presume you mean by this local campaigns, against e.g. cuts, against crime, againt poor housing. We should work on the estates etc and in the workplaces. However, there is nothing wrong with also approaching union activists- I'm not talking about the union tops but local activists and stewards. We do need an alternative and a break from the tory polices carried on by new labour.
However, it is also very important I think to have mass mobilisations against the BNP. Why? Becasue they are indeed as Attica's advertised call-out says murdering bastards and maximum organisation against them is necessary. Therefore the idea of chasing away people attending a UAF demo is laughable. One of the more militant antofascist demos I've been on in last 5 years was a UAF demo in Altrincham, Manchester and though the UAF leaders tried to prevent militant action most of the members of the demo took no notice.
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/article57648.ece
And the demos in Oldham in 2001 (pre UAF as it happens) whilst called by a local group included members of trade unions and members of the Labour party (including some of the Asian youth- well more the ones in their twenties) Should we chase them away? I'm all for political argument and it wasn't hard as many hated Labour for the war on Iraq, for poverty and all sorts of other things but to physoically divide the antifasvis movement would be a mistake- we should be for united action including as many workers as possible and political argument to form a new political alternative against the fascists and the capitalist politics that lead to them.
KeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
cockneyrebel said:
A comment with wihich I heartily agree
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
urbanrevolt said:
No, i ment the Irish loyalists - the bigot Rev W Martin Smyth being a key founding UAF signatory as is Leroy Logan of the Metrpolitan Black Police Association and Carolyn Jones Director, Institute of Employment. That's the sort of people i'm not joining in any activity with ever. Not trade unionists.
And working with local activists isn't ruled out by nmy stance - but working with the labour party and people like the above is. BY chase away i mean organisationally. I'm not keen on the way you've inflated my argument that labour and tories should be kept away from this sort of thing into an argument that trade unionists and asian people should be kept away too.
You can't be the problem and the solution. I don't see why independent w/c political action need those people mentioned above on board, given that they are largely part of what we're fighting against - nor do i see why it need be linked to the UAF. I see no advantages to that link at all, but plenty of drawbacks.
urbanrevolt
New Member
OK well thanks for the clairifcation and I'll try not to inflate th eposition any more then.
I don't see why it needs to be linked up tot he UAF either really but if they have called a demo then see no harm in going along- mobilising for it spearatley as a good idea- but not chasing them away- unles yo mean metaphorically/ politically by being better organised than they are.
I hold no brief for the UAF- they are not a good model I think. So let's create abetter one. If that's all you mean fair enough. Anyway got to go. I;d be tempted to say see you outside the Oxford Union but there's no way I'll be able to get there.
I don't see why it needs to be linked up tot he UAF either really but if they have called a demo then see no harm in going along- mobilising for it spearatley as a good idea- but not chasing them away- unles yo mean metaphorically/ politically by being better organised than they are.
I hold no brief for the UAF- they are not a good model I think. So let's create abetter one. If that's all you mean fair enough. Anyway got to go. I;d be tempted to say see you outside the Oxford Union but there's no way I'll be able to get there.
glenquagmire
Rightwing NuLab apologist
What about trade unionists who are also members of the Labour Party?
I heard a rumour there are still a few about.
I heard a rumour there are still a few about.
The Black Hand
Unclean
butchersapron said:
You do that.
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Looks like this is going to get a good turn out, just had a message saying they're laying on more coaches due to demand...
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
butchersapron said:
What an odd thing to say, especially from one who does little to hide his contempt for such institutions. But you're being ironic - right? Please tell me you're being ironic.
The Black Hand
Unclean
treelover said:
An eye for an eye sends Griffin Blind
When people like the BNP are asked and questioned about their policies, they usually end up revealing themselves as the stupid racists that they obviously are.
So, why worry about them appearing at this event?
The best way to expose their lies is to "give them enough rope, etc".
Surely trying to physically prevent them speaking only plays into their hands by giving them the old "they are afraid to let us speak because they know we are right" excuse.
Giles..
So, why worry about them appearing at this event?
The best way to expose their lies is to "give them enough rope, etc".
Surely trying to physically prevent them speaking only plays into their hands by giving them the old "they are afraid to let us speak because they know we are right" excuse.
Giles..
KeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
Giles said:
Spot on. Looks like the UAF and the idiot left are not only shooting themselves in the foot again but giving the bnp ammo to use against them
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Kid_Eternity said:
For whom exactly? The OU hall isn't that big is it?
Or are there going to be busloads of fash and antifash down there?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Giles said:
Have a look at the other thread, the paxman/griffin stuff in particular -what do you think Griffin is going to say 'yeah i hate pakis, ugh me like woman' - are some posh students going to destory fascism by their probing?
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
Meanwhile, the Great Leader gives the most horrendously rightwing speach to the CBI and the cod-left are too busy farting around with crap like this to counter or protest any of it. Nice to see they've got their priorities right again.KeyboardJockey said:
butchersapron said:
No, I don't expect Griffin to come out with "I hate Pakis" or whatever. But my point still stands, it is better to let these people expose themselves as what they are rather than try to physically prevent them for speaking, because it allows them to use the "freedom of speech" argument.
In particular, if a large and possibly violent demo takes place, then THEY end up looking moderate and respectable, and their opponents look like the thugs.
Giles..
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
What makes you think that they'll 'expose themselves' under the pressure of some posh twats though. What would 'exposing themelves 'consist of (yes, i know how else to put it though)?
how else to put it though)?kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
So, no one knows who these coachloads of people are that KE was going on about then, eh?
untethered
For industry & decency
I wonder how far Messrs. Griffin and Irving will push it.
They have been invited to talk about freedom of speech. It would be reasonable to allow them to talk about circumstances in which their freedom to speak has been curtailed, but how far will the chairman tolerate them expressing the actual views for which they were censored?
They have been invited to talk about freedom of speech. It would be reasonable to allow them to talk about circumstances in which their freedom to speak has been curtailed, but how far will the chairman tolerate them expressing the actual views for which they were censored?
Similar threads
