Anti-American: is there such a thing?

[fela fan]

More on that kyser.

When i said it's nothing to do with the people, i meant the term 'anti-american'. I think consciously folk can be anti-america, yet they associate that anti feeling with those that pursue their foreign policy. I know how easily it can subconsciously take in the people at times, especially in times of emotion and keen debate.

There is a clear established link between the leaders, the media, the people. But it is the latter, burdened by hard work, families, personal worries, debt, the society-driven need to consume just to keep up their face with the neighbours, and so on, and so on, that allows me to understand their apathy towards what their leaders do. Add in the important rider that so many of them just don't even know what their leaders do due to the supine mis/unreporting media, and i can easily in the cold light of the day understand and not blame the people.

Furthermore, and i say this from my lucky experience of having lived in thailand for many years, to keep a level head in life, a person needs HOLIDAYS! Getting away from work, having time to think about matters other than the daily routine, and the need to 'get on' in life, is very precious time for the balance and the good-feeling of the soul.

And americans get just three weeks a year. That's FORTY-NINE weeks of work!!!

Also, i will add that there are many millions of concerned citizens who are vehemently opposed to their government's actions.

To me america contains two countries. But i find it within me only to actually blame those who perpetrate the foreign policy, and those entrusted to tell us about it.

 

[phildwyer]

Most Americans don't even get two weeks. In a typical middle-class job you won't get any vacation at all for the first two years, and two weeks after that if you're lucky. Many Americans have to work two jobs to make ends meet, and thus get no vacation anyway. I'd also like to point out the fewer Americans, proportionally, voted for Bush than Brits did for Blair.

 

[fela fan]

Most Americans don't even get two weeks. In a typical middle-class job you won't get any vacation at all for the first two years, and two weeks after that if you're lucky. Many Americans have to work two jobs to make ends meet, and thus get no vacation anyway. I'd also like to point out the fewer Americans, proportionally, voted for Bush than Brits did for Blair.

That puts it in an even direr context!! Fuck man, that is even worse than the bad i thought it was.

I know from my own experiences and those of my mates all living in a cheaper-cost-of-living country just how valuable holidays are for the well-being of the soul and an inner-contentedness. Basically you get time to THINK. To get your routine and daily problems outta your life for a while. That then leaves a mind freed up to consider life, to look at things from other perspectives.

Very occasionally i get problems at work and i observe how it affects my person, my behaviour. If that were to be happening all the time...

 

[phildwyer]

That puts it in an even direr context!! Fuck man, that is even worse than the bad i thought it was.

I know from my own experiences and those of my mates all living in a cheaper-cost-of-living country just how valuable holidays are for the well-being of the soul and an inner-contentedness. Basically you get time to THINK. To get your routine and daily problems outta your life for a while. That then leaves a mind freed up to consider life, to look at things from other perspectives.

That's right. I work from my computer most of the time, so I'm usually on holiday in the sense that I can be wherever I want to be in the world. As you say, its particularly good to spend time in the third world, cos its cheap and you don't have to work much, and you're even saving money by being there. I loves it, I does. But anyway, people often wonder why Americans don't travel abroad much--its not parochialism, they just haven't got the time.

 

[laptop]

I'm anti-US-government - whichever.

There are many people who live between the 49th parallel and the Rio Grande who I hold dear: all are unAmericans.

I'm also profoundly anti-American in the sense that I oppose the (rather few) things that citizens of the USA who are not unAmericans hold in common: wilful ignorance, especially about the world beyond those latitudinal limits and beyond the oceans; a firm commitment to narrative satisfaction over observation or a search for truth; an even firmer commitment to binary worldviews that exclude nuance... and above all a blind "it's foreign, let's kill it" commitment to Americannness, particularly manifested in their insistence that "American" is synonymous with "citizen of the 50 States" and their dismissal thereby as non-humans of the majority of the people who live betwen Tierra del Fuego and Baffin Island.

 

[Epicurus]

Tell me about your ideology. What is a good economic system? What country presently has a good economic system?

What do you stand for?

With all due respect mears this is a BB and I have made over 1500 posts; if you want to know what I stand for I suggest you look at my previous posts they will give you answers to your questions.

 

[fela fan]

With all due respect mears this is a BB and I have made over 1500 posts; if you want to know what I stand for I suggest you look at my previous posts they will give you answers to your questions.

Yeah, but he's not remotely interested mate. It's the standard question by americans when they hear complaints about their foreign policy. They know deep down that the complaints are valid, but to face up to that fact would be to undermine their whole previous understandings of life.

And that, understandably, is not easy to do. Hence the common refrain to say 'what would you do'.

It's all over the place that question, in the USA. It's a get out. A question to help oneself avoid asking pesky questions. Truth can sometimes be a nasty bugger...

 

[phildwyer]

Just to reiterate, fewer Americans, proportionally, voted for Bush than Brits did for Blair. It is less possible to generalize accurately about Americans than about any other nation. Mears and pbman are representative of *perhaps* 10% of the population, at the most.

 

[kyser_soze]

Mears and pbman are representative of *perhaps* 10% of the population, at the most.

YEah, unfortunately they're the loud and noisey 10%...

 

[phildwyer]

YEah, unfortunately they're the loud and noisey 10%...

Actually, I suspect there are lots of Good Americans on here, its just that you don't realize they're American.

 

[kyser_soze]

Ah no - we've got Vixhia, Yuwipi Woman and loads of lovely US peeps on here whom we know are Americans...they just don't make as much noise...

 

[tobyjug]

Actually, I suspect there are lots of Good Americans on here, its just that you don't realize they're American.

I only found out someone who emailed me for some practical advice about fitting a sidecar was American when he was puzzled I had the sidecar on the left of the motorcycle.

 

[camouflage]

I only found out someone who emailed me for some practical advice about fitting a sidecar was American when he was puzzled I had the sidecar on the left of the motorcycle.

That doesn't necessarily mean he's American, pretty much every other nation on Earth drives around on the wrong side of the road as if it's normal. Bloody lunatics.

 

[tobyjug]

That doesn't necessarily mean he's American, pretty much every other nation on Earth drives around on the wrong side of the road as if it's normal. Bloody lunatics.

It became rather obvious he was American from other little clues.

 

[hipipol]

Good Economic System Mears?

hardly the US when as we have seen a third of the population of a major city did not have enough money for a bus to get out of the way of 150 mph winds.
As far as I can make out the Swedes and the Finns have got it pretty close to a decent balance
Bhutan looks close to paradise too
As for the rest of us, well we toddle along, Govts making feeble attempts to curb the worste excesses of massive global corporations - heard two Aussies on the bus last talking about the UKs primitive lack of some sandwich chain, erks, welcome to the dark ages
Back to the Anti-American thing, its a bit like some psycho big kid who decides hes going to join your football game, you resent the fuck out of his bullying ways, but secretly, want him on your team.

 

[camouflage]

hardly the US when as we have seen a third of the population of a major city did not have enough money for a bus to get out of the way of 150 mph winds.
As far as I can make out the Swedes and the Finns have got it pretty close to a decent balance
Bhutan looks close to paradise too
As for the rest of us, well we toddle along, Govts making feeble attempts to curb the worste excesses of massive global corporations - heard two Aussies on the bus last talking about the UKs primitive lack of some sandwich chain, erks, welcome to the dark ages
Back to the Anti-American thing, its a bit like some psycho big kid who decides hes going to join your football game, you resent the fuck out of his bullying ways, but secretly, want him on your team.

Or like some psycho kid who decides you're on his team, and if you don't like it- he rips out your brain and replaces it with a more cooperative one (like I suspect happened to Britain during the Summer of Discontent that preceeded Thatcher's reign of terror, but what do I know, my tinfoil-hat has holes in it).

 

[phildwyer]

The main thing to remember about the USA is that the most intelligent 50% of the registered voters don't vote. The even more intelligent ones don't even register--I certainly don't. And there are anything up to 20 million illegal immigrants here too. The vast majority of Americans have simply written off their political system, and quite right too.

 

[888]

Yeah! Although I voted - but only in referenda - not for Bush-Kerry

 

[Rich Lyon]

I think the question is clearly about being anti-American-as-is, rather than about being anti-American-as-is-supposed-to-be. After all, there isn't much to argue about here:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

(Is there? I'm excluding anarchists, psychopaths and criminals from the question, of course.)

If so, then I am anti-American-as-is, from the point of view that it no longer upholds the principles set out in its own founding statement.

However, I think the idea of America is wonderful. So the interesting question for me is: would you rather live in a society that is currently crap, but has a vision of itself that is wonderful. Or would you rather live in a society that is mediocre, and has a vision of itself that is mediocre.

I don't find that question straightforward to answer.

 

[hipipol]

The Declartion of Independence

A noble document, but more a statement of intent
By the time the Constitution was written many of these noble ideals had fallen by the wayside - if all men are created equal, how come the Constitution allowed slavery?
I think many Americans are also more familiar with the declaration than with the Constitution, hence their support for actions which, if carried out with high noble ideals may seem justifiable, but in fact are utterly reprehensible - Iraq, the support for the Coup against (insert almost any lefty leaders name here), etc

 

[mears]

With all due respect mears this is a BB and I have made over 1500 posts; if you want to know what I stand for I suggest you look at my previous posts they will give you answers to your questions.

I thought so.

 

[mears]

hardly the US when as we have seen a third of the population of a major city did not have enough money for a bus to get out of the way of 150 mph winds.
As far as I can make out the Swedes and the Finns have got it pretty close to a decent balance
Bhutan looks close to paradise too
As for the rest of us, well we toddle along, Govts making feeble attempts to curb the worste excesses of massive global corporations - heard two Aussies on the bus last talking about the UKs primitive lack of some sandwich chain, erks, welcome to the dark ages
Back to the Anti-American thing, its a bit like some psycho big kid who decides hes going to join your football game, you resent the fuck out of his bullying ways, but secretly, want him on your team.

Enough bus money to leave? I don't know how you quantify that. I'm sure most of them had the bus money. Many still refuse to leave the city.

America is not a country of 10 million people. What works for the Swedes and Finns may not work for us. But if we do want higher taxes, increased government regulations and (Like France and Germany) higher unemployment we will vote in politicians that give it to us.

I love that boogeyman talk of corporations. The corporations that provide millions of people around the globe with jobs.

If we curbed the corporate excess we could all live happily ever after

 

[ViolentPanda]

The main thing to remember about the USA is that the most intelligent 50% of the registered voters don't vote. The even more intelligent ones don't even register--I certainly don't. And there are anything up to 20 million illegal immigrants here too. The vast majority of Americans have simply written off their political system, and quite right too.

Have you ever heard the old saw "self-praise is no recommendation", phil?

 

[ViolentPanda]

I thought so.

No you didn't.

What you've actually done is make an assumption about epicurus' political philosophy or ideological leanings based on your prejudices, which isn't the same thing as "thinking" at all.

 

[Azrael23]

The fact a term like anti-american can even be used with any seriousness is a sign of the arrogance of the US administration. There are books published every year about anti-americanism, as if there is some kind of high ideal underlying govt policy.
Can you imagine switzerland publishing books and reguarly referring in speeches to "anti-swissism"

ITS A FARSE.

 

[Streathamite]

America is not a country of 10 million people. What works for the Swedes and Finns may not work for us. But if we do want higher taxes, increased government regulations and (Like France and Germany) higher unemployment we will vote in politicians that give it to us.

no you won't! you'll vote form whichever party doles out the most dosh on the jazziest and most OTT campaign!
Everdince for that overwhelming - or why spend so much money?

 

[exleper]

ITS A FARSE.