Anti-America Lunatic Playwrite Harold Pinter raving again...
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fela fan said:
Yeah, like the State Broadcasting Service is even going to have one of their people so much as Acknowlegde the universe Pinter alludes to, as you have seen they ignore the whole story completely.
Pinters words unexist, they are outside of history.
Binkie said:
The media are the truly guilty party here. It is supposed to be their fucking job to stop power abuses in democracies.
Journalists these days are cowards. And if they're not that then they're pathetically underinformed. What the fuck do they teach them on journalism degrees these days??
Foreigner's right. Pinter shouts about it, and no, fuck all response. Fallujah gets wasted, and barely a peep from the supine media.
OBL bombs new york and the whole western media are up in arms.
Mass self-delusion is the disease of the day when it comes to british and american media sorts. Absolutely pathetic they are.
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
er...fela fan said:
no it isn't.
foreigner said:
And that's what he said thought isn't it!! He said 'and nothing happened, it didn't happen'.
He knew how the media would report his speech.
So did i. I've always blamed them more than the criminal wankers that lead our countries. It's the leaders' job to manipulate and be arch criminals. It's supposed to be the media's job to stop them.
At least the leaders live up to our expectations of them.
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
fela fan said:
NO! IT ISN'T!
Pickman's model said:
Er... in one word you are WRONG. Sort yourself out. It IS their job. They are the fourth estate in democracies.
You just could not be more wrong if you tried for the next 100 years. I'm going to bed before you write anything more that is even more stress-inducing.
What the fuck are you on about?
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
a democracy is supposed to be government by the people, for the people &c.fela fan said:
the media - not unsurprisingly - act as an intermediary between the events they're reporting and us. it is their job to report the news. not to make it, but to report it. and a fuck of a lot of journalists can't even do that right.
where exactly do the media fit into the british constitution - or the american one, for that matter - as part of the system of checks and balances which prevents overweening magnates taking over everything?
no wonder the world's in such a fucking mess when allegedly intelligent people think it's up to journalists to right the world's wrongs.
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
yours.fela fan said:
Pickman's model said:a democracy is supposed to be government by the people, for the people &c.
the media - not unsurprisingly - act as an intermediary between the events they're reporting and us. it is their job to report the news. not to make it, but to report it. and a fuck of a lot of journalists can't even do that right.
where exactly do the media fit into the british constitution - or the american one, for that matter - as part of the system of checks and balances which prevents overweening magnates taking over everything?
no wonder the world's in such a fucking mess when allegedly intelligent people think it's up to journalists to right the world's wrongs.
Yes, their job to report the news, not to not report it. Which is what you might be saying, but it's unclear.
And not to politically affiliate themselves with one party or t'other.
And yes, we need to differentiate between the owners of the media and the people they employ to write and/or present news. But, in a free society, it is still incumbent upon the journalists to write it as it is, not as their paymasters want them to.
And when someone like pinter makes the charges that he did in his acceptance speech, then what he's saying should be investigated. It is big news, yet it's in effect left well alone. It is, as pilger would say, 'non-news'.
And that has more direct impact on our leaders getting away with their crimes than anything else in society. The people are reliant upon the free media to present news freely, without twisting it or simply not presenting it.
The american and british press are a total disgrace. Because of the big corporate influence of business and media magnates, and because of journos' self-censorship.
I really can't see what argument you are making here.
It's most telling that not a single american poster who normally make excuses for their leaders have made an appearance on this thread.
Naturally it's coz pinter has called it exactly as it is, and to continue with the astonishing levels of self-delusion that they employ means they really cannot read it and consciously apply what they read to their brains.
If they did, their whole world would come crashing down, and they'd have to start again.
Naturally it's coz pinter has called it exactly as it is, and to continue with the astonishing levels of self-delusion that they employ means they really cannot read it and consciously apply what they read to their brains.
If they did, their whole world would come crashing down, and they'd have to start again.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
foreigner said:
And the Soviet Union spawned every single leftist dictatorship, from Vietnam to Cambodia to N Korea to Cuba to the countries in the Horn of Africa.
I'd call it a draw.
Johnny Canuck2 said:
Yeah, well you're still alive to do that.
The soviet union is gone, we are left with a brutal superpower who stop at nothing to advance the interests of a few rich power-mad amoral wankers, and i want to know why the american media and the british media decide that pinter's charges about the USA are non-news.
So, based on the world today, it's not a fucking draw at all. It's USA number one killer, and UK number two. Although maybe france can push them for that spot, yet both are way way behind the brutalities of US foreign policy.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
fela fan said:
Because he's said it before, and all it is is opinion?
Yes, the USSR is gone, but N Korea etc are still with us as a legacy.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
What should the headlines read: "Harold Pinter Says US Is Bad"?
Johnny Canuck2 said:
I'm not in the least interested in the headlines. I want american journos to start investigating pinter's claims, and to inform american readers about what respected people are saying that their country's leaders do in their name.
Then this massive killing machine might stop, and its resources might be diverted to creating peace in the world.
Instead rabbiting on about it, all the meanwhile doing nothing of the sort.
Johnny Canuck2 said:
I assume by 'he' you mean pinter.
And if the journos investigated what he's saying then we could decide if it was opinion or fact.
But in any case, there is a vast array of documents that back him up. But it's non-news in america. They can't bear to look within to see the absolute fucking misery they cause so many millions around the world, the ones that are still alive that is.
Go on mate, tell me which bits pinter talks about that are not true...
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Johnny Canuck2 said:
Ahuh, and who told you that? The USSR did not spawn every leftist dicatorship blah blah blah. In South East Asia, in south America, what you had was nationalist and anti-colonialist and socialist movements trying to pave a way forward for their people. In Eastern Europe what you had was the Russians quite sensibly (although not, er... good) setting up a series of buffer states between themselves and the West (the direction from which every major invasion of Russia for the past three hundred years had come).
Saying the USSR was responsible for every attempt by people in the 3rd world to free themselves from colonialism, imperialism and exploitation by the Capitalist Internacional is just spouting the propaganda that your nation has justified sixty years of aggressive imperialist interventionism with.
Maybe you think impirialism and colonialism and capitalism internacional are all just illusions spouted by conspiraloons who think the Big Bad West wan't to steal the resources and productivity of brown yellow and black people for no logical reason, when everybody knows thet the USA has alwasy abhorred exploitation and slavery and the taking of land by force because that's not what America is about because America is a land of peace and equality and goodness and niceces ness and <sarcasm die-off>
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
fela fan said:
Isn't it the same thing?
Why should american journalists go on some sort of major fact finding mission because an aging british playwright says that the US is bad?
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
fela fan said:
But it is non-news. The US set up a lot of these right wing dictatorships during the cold war, to counteract the Soviet Union, which was doing the same thing regionally throughout the world.
Where is the stop the presses style story in that? It's history.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
foreigner said:
Propaganda: leftist version.
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Johnny Canuck2 said:
, no point talking to you about this, you just come back with Qwak! Slavery is Freedom! Peace is War! Quak! Quak! and then you'll accuse me of doing the same. Lets just say you don't get it, and are completely unaware of any legitimate concerns that may be held against the USA and it's foreign policy history and leave it at that.
nino_savatte
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Johnny says he is in favour of serious debate. It is a shame, then, that this seriousness that he desires is absent in his posts. Talk about hypocrisy.
nino_savatte
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Johnny Canuck2 said:
That's a rather selectivised take on events, if you don't mind me saying so.
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