Another rape victim denied morning after pill

[cliffandferry]

One thing you could do is not try to justify their actions to us.

Okay, I'm new around here, but that made me go a bit It's not okay to see another side to the issues? Do you not get the concept of disagreeing with someone, but still kind of seeing where they are coming from (culture etc)? The "I don't think it's right, but I understand" bit... Because yeah, I think it's appalling not to provide morning-after pills to women (rape or no rape), but I can see why some pharmacists would be reluctant to do it, and not always because of the pro-life stuff, but also because the morning afters can seriously f up your hormonal balance (even just the one pill can do a lot of long term damage if you're unlucky). It shouldn't be treated as normal birth control ffs. It's an emergency measure.

And I don't think spring-peeper deserved all that abuse (s?)he got.

 

[toggle]

Okay, I'm new around here, but that made me go a bit It's not okay to see another side to the issues? Do you not get the concept of disagreeing with someone, but still kind of seeing where they are coming from (culture etc)? The "I don't think it's right, but I understand" bit... Because yeah, I think it's appalling not to provide morning-after pills to women (rape or no rape), but I can see why some pharmacists would be reluctant to do it, and not always because of the pro-life stuff, but also because the morning afters can seriously f up your hormonal balance (even just the one pill can do a lot of long term damage if you're unlucky). It shouldn't be treated as normal birth control ffs. It's an emergency measure.

And I don't think spring-peeper deserved all that abuse (s?)he got.

We're not talking about using the morning after pill regularly, we're talking about denying it to a woman who had been raped. I can see whty a pharmacist, where it is given out otc would suggest that someone who was picking it up every week would suggest that the woman should go see a doctor to discuss contraception. But that is not the case here.

 

[trashpony]

Okay, I'm new around here, but that made me go a bit It's not okay to see another side to the issues? Do you not get the concept of disagreeing with someone, but still kind of seeing where they are coming from (culture etc)?

Not when it's being an apologist for denying women something they're entitled to under law.

I can see why some pharmacists would be reluctant to do it, and not always because of the pro-life stuff, but also because the morning afters can seriously f up your hormonal balance (even just the one pill can do a lot of long term damage if you're unlucky). It shouldn't be treated as normal birth control ffs. It's an emergency measure.

That's exactly what's being discussed - an emergency measure. We're not talking about using it as birth control.

And I don't think spring-peeper deserved all that abuse (s?)he got.

God, you really are new round here, aren't you?

 

[cliffandferry]

Yes, ok, fair enough. Rape is absolutely emergency enough to use a morning after, but I think I read earlier on in this thread that the pharmacists shouldn't even ask or care why sb wants a morning after, that they should just hand it over to anyone who comes in and asks. Did I hallucinate that or what? (I'll edit with a quote if I find it, but I'm not really looking for a big debate here, I was just saying it's not that innocent of a drug as some of you seem to think)

Found the quote:

Why should you have to be raped to get hold of the morning after pill. It isn't (to my mind) abortion, but birth control.

I disagree with this and I think every reasonable medical professional would take issue with that kind of statement, because it promotes carelessness and makes it seem like it's okay to rely on morning-afters if you don't happen to have anything handy "the night before". It's not that kind of birth control, it's basically a hormonally induced abortion, and it's hard on a woman's body, even though the ethical and moral issues re/ an extermination of a pregnancy in such an early stage may be a bit different than in the case of a "traditional" abortion. It may not be a "baby" there yet, but it's still not a good idea for valid medical reasons, morality doesn't even enter into it.

God, you really are new round here, aren't you?

What is that, an insult? And yes, I am. Very sorry if it offends.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Let me see I can grasp the point.

Even though an action is socially and morally correct for one culture, it is acceptable for you to try to get them to change because it offends you and does not fit with your morals.

How close am I?

about as close as a dog is to a cat what we are talking about isn't some wishy washy untanglable moral imperitive but an imperical right, that a human being has the right to decide what happens to them it's called free will anything which denys that is abhorent on all levels.

Simply put my simple friend.

More over as i have said it's not a culture and your factious argument is trying to protray it as such which means that you are defending the moral imperitive even if your words on the subject of it suggest that you disagree with the crux of it. a culture is the systemactic and preverlent accepted normality with in a particular social section of a society.

If that culture existed where the moring after pill was denied by way of culture then it would not be aviable from the pharmacy in the first place would it. the culture would prevent it. you see how your flawed logic acutally kills off your argument instantaiously...


the culture issue actually makes my blood boil.

it's a fucking misnomer, it's a small minded, bigotted, incorrect and ill thought out logical falicy which has little baring on the subject matter in hand and has everything to do with your own interpretation and ironically trying to force the discussion down a narrowed parameter which you feel it fits, not unlike the person who refused the pill on their moral grounds...

you are claiming the false flag of seeing the other point of view yet in reality your own words betray the underlying thought process behind that defence.

so let me ask you a question from your seeing the other side point of view what can mankind do which will oppose the will of god? what power ca we exert which will caljole, persuade, chide, gode, bully, bargin with god... and what benifit will that bring god?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Very minor? Very FUCKING minor???

What fucking planet are you on??? How is it 'very minor' to have to carry a child to term? How is it 'very minor' to bring an unwanted child into the world?

Oh - but it's okay because if you get raped in Pakistan, you may get sentenced to death. And it's not as bad as that, is it?

God - I thought Garf was being harsh with you earlier but you really are a complete and utter moron.

a spade is a spade

 

[trashpony]

Yes, ok, fair enough. Rape is absolutely emergency enough to use a morning after, but I think I read earlier on in this thread that the pharmacists shouldn't even ask or care why sb wants a morning after, that they should just hand it over to anyone who comes in and asks. Did I hallucinate that or what? (I'll edit with a quote if I find it, but I'm not really looking for a big debate here, I was just saying it's not that innocent of a drug as some of you seem to think)

I think the reports of women using the morning after pill as contraception are greatly exaggerated. And tbh, I do think pharmacists should just hand it over - whatever the physical consequences of taking it (and I can find nothing negative on the interweb about it, bar the crap spouted by pro-lifers). The longterm effects of having an unwanted child are many, many times more serious. And actually, if you had ever been raped, going to the pharmacy to ask for the MAP is harrowing enough, without having to go through the bloody third degree.

What is that, an insult? And yes, I am. Very sorry if it offends.

No, it wasn't an insult. Just an observation that any views on this board which are essentially illiberal is likely to get a pretty robust attack from the majority of posters. So don't be surprised if people get shot down in flames when they post stuff like that.

 

[cliffandferry]

(and I can find nothing negative on the interweb about it, bar the crap spouted by pro-lifers).

Well it's a crapload of hormones. I don't know if you're a woman yourself or not (I am), but taking a crapload of hormones=not good.

The longterm effects of having an unwanted child are many, many times more serious.

Yes. I agree. Is exactly why you should use actual birth control, and if it fails, then you go for the morning after. If you must. But it should be still thought of as abortion in the sense that it isn't just another little pill. It's drastic stuff. I'm pro-choice and I don't believe in an interventionist God and I really don't care much about the moral issues here, but abortion shouldn't be easy, and shouldn't be thought of as a normal everyday thing, because it can be avoided for the most part.

I do agree with the bit how it would be hard to be questioned about the why and the wherefore if you've recently been raped, though. I don't really have any answers. I think maybe it would be best if there was like a short interview every time, not about rape, obviously, but just a couple of questions about whether she knows the effects of the pill and has she taken any before and if yes then doesn't she want to consider an alternative birth control to use regularly etc. Obviously they should give the pill, because if somebody needs it then it's already too late to prevent anything, but there should be enough information (or even enough of a hassle about getting it) that she would want to make sure she doesn't have to take one again if she can avoid it.

No, it wasn't an insult. Just an observation that any views on this board which are essentially illiberal is likely to get a pretty robust attack from the majority of posters. So don't be surprised if people get shot down in flames when they post stuff like that.

Aha. Understood.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

erm it's not an abortion as there is nothing to abort as the hormones prevent fertiliseation... no fertiliesation nothing to abort is there...

language is terrably important when talking about this type of thing and also in highlighting the erronous thinking which makes up the dogmatic superstious hokem logic...

 

[pbman]

One thing about the internet you have to remember is that it takes time to deliver medication ordered online.

The pill has to be taken within 5 days of the act. It can sometimes take up to six weeks for medication to get to a house in the mail.

Next day air.

If they don't have the internet they can use the 800 number.

Or call a friend or relative who lives in anouther state.........

Were not talking much of an imposition here.

AT least in reality.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Next day air.

If they don't have the internet they can use the 800 number.

Or call a friend or relative who lives in anouther state.........

Were not talking much of an imposition here.

AT least in reality.

erm regardless answer the question posed to you ealier should a woman who has been raped be denied the pill ?

yes or no?

 

[pbman]

You try to pull this one out of your arse every so often, usually when you're losing. This pharmacist was in a privaledged position and he abused it by refusing emergency treatment to a person who had been raped. Utter, utter fucking scum

Grow up.

You don't even live their.

What in the world give you the right to decide for people in another country what is best for them.

Nothing.

And for those of you, who blather on about anarky,you are hypocrits.

You want total freedom, but deny others the right to make minor laws,about what is best for their friends family and neighbors..............

 

[pbman]

erm regardless answer the question posed to you ealier should a woman who has been raped be denied the pill ?

yes or no?

Being raped doesn't give you the right to murder.

 

[cliffandferry]

erm it's not an abortion as there is nothing to abort as the hormones prevent fertiliseation... no fertiliesation nothing to abort is there...

Yeah, sorry, you're right. I was thinking of mifepristone, but I did some research, and the popular morning-afters aren't based on that at all. Sorry, my bad.

(Mifepristone actually induces an abortion and comes in pill form, and I automatically assumed they were using that, because all the morality issues are about terminating pregnancies not preventing them, I think, so I don't really understand where the problem started at all in this case if the pills in question only prevent fertilisation? )

 

[DarthSydodyas]

What in the world give you the right to decide for people in another country what is best for them.

 

[Japey]

Being raped doesn't give you the right to murder.

Of course it does. It's your stupid christian "let's all just be nice to each other" woolly philosophy that leads to situations where women are forced to become mothers to the kid of a rapist.

You're not so keen on the right to life in other situations. Why is a rapist's sperm more important than, for example, an Iraqi kid stood in the wrong place?

 

[ViolentPanda]

erm it's not an abortion as there is nothing to abort as the hormones prevent fertiliseation... no fertiliesation nothing to abort is there...

As an aside: I thought that rather than preventing fertilisation, the "morning after pill" prevented successful implantation of the fertilised egg?

language is terrably important when talking about this type of thing and also in highlighting the erronous thinking which makes up the dogmatic superstious hokem logic...

Yep, because unless you circumvent that hokum you end up with the stupidity of comments such as "Being raped doesn't give you the right to murder." from the likes of pbman, who believes that a cluster of undifferentiated cells uninhabited by a soul (if you go in for that sort of thing) is a live human being.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Of course it does. It's your stupid christian "let's all just be nice to each other" woolly philosophy that leads to situations where women are forced to become mothers to the kid of a rapist.

I believe you have a VERY mistaen impression of pbman's "christianity".

You're not so keen on the right to life in other situations. Why is a rapist's sperm more important than, for example, an Iraqi kid stood in the wrong place?

Selectivity, isn't it? Peebs, as an ambassador for his g-d on this planet, eserves the right to be partisan with the support of his deity.

 

[In Bloom]

Grow up.

You don't even live their.

What in the world give you the right to decide for people in another country what is best for them.

Nothing.

What in the world gives a pharmacist the right to deny emergency treatment to a rape victim? Fuck all this nationalist bullshit, who the fuck do you people think you are anyway?

And for those of you, who blather on about anarky,you are hypocrits.

You want total freedom, but deny others the right to make minor laws,about what is best for their friends family and neighbors..............

Yes, anarchists who don't support the right of states to oppress women who have been raped are such hypocrites

You don't get to decide what is "best" for somebody just because you happen to live near them, they get to decide that.

 

[monkeyhead]

You want total freedom, but deny others the right to make minor laws,about what is best for their friends family and neighbors..............

so freedom, to you, is having the right to make laws that inhibit other peoples freedom..............................

 

[Structaural]

so freedom, to you, is having the right to make laws that inhibit other peoples freedom..............................

Nah, pbman just doesn't want the only way that he and his buddies can make babies taken away from them....

 

[_pH_]

What in the world give you the right to decide for people in another country what is best for them.

What in the world gives you the right to decide what is best for someone else, even if they are in the same country as you? Giving a woman who has been raped medication will have no effect on your life whatsoever, so why deny her this?

Edit: In Bloom beat me to it, but I still wanted to say it.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Grow up.

You don't even live their.

What in the world give you the right to decide for people in another country what is best for them.

Nothing.

And for those of you, who blather on about anarky,you are hypocrits.

You want total freedom, but deny others the right to make minor laws,about what is best for their friends family and neighbors..............

erm does this include iraq then peebs ... if so will you publically renonnouce your previous support of the war, i'll even start a thread on it for you if you'd like... seeing as you now concede that no country has the rigth to decide on what's best for them...

huh?


can't have it both ways cowboy, oh and when your ready the answer tot he question you have failed spectacularlly to answer thus far... lead head...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Being raped doesn't give you the right to murder.

i think regardless that it'd be manslaugter peebs after all it would be considered by all but the most mysoginistic of judges as self defence, no?

or are all women asking for it and in which case the premeditiation of the taking of a life would therefore be complicit...

which is it murder or manslaughter...

you need to think really hard about this one...

 

[fractionMan]

Pbman is a twat shocker!

 

[Streathamite]

Being raped doesn't give you the right to murder.

is that a 'yes' or a f-ing 'no', you weaselling little coward? should the rape victim have te right to a morning after pill or not?
good luck peeps, the chickenhawk from dixie is too scared to give ANY straight answers

 

[Streathamite]

Nah, pbman just doesn't want the only way that he and his buddies can make babies taken away from them....

you think leadhead's ever gone down that route right to the finishing line?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

you think leadhead's ever gone down that route right to the finishing line?

nah let's face it the amount of lead he has around him at any one time he can't breed ...

oh you meant...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

so lead head murder or manslaughter?

a) murder
b) manslaughter

and does a raped woman have the right to the morning after pill?

A) Yes
B) NO

those are your choices ...

let's see your answers now dumdum

 

[pbman]

Of course it does. It's your stupid christian "let's all just be nice to each other" woolly philosophy that leads to situations where women are forced to become mothers to the kid of a rapist.

You're not so keen on the right to life in other situations. Why is a rapist's sperm more important than, for example, an Iraqi kid stood in the wrong place?

I like to prevent rapes in the first place by allowing people the right to carry.

When you support the same, then you might have the credibility to talk on the isssue.