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Another bnp by-election vote - going down..

treelover said:
btw, for the complacent party, more BNP results

Epping Forest DC Grangehill

Con 609 39.4% (-12.2%)
Lib Dem 586 37.9% (-4.9%)
BNP 302 19.5% (+19.5%)
Lab 48 3.1% (+3.1%)

Maj 23 Turnout 32.8% Con gain from Lib Dem Last fought 2003

The second week running that the BNP have outpolled Labour in an
Essex seat (Shoeburyness in Southend).

Lancaster City DC, Skerton West

Lab 493 59.1% (+16.1%)
Con 172 20.6% (+1.2%)
BNP 93 11.2% (+11.2%)
Ind 76 9.1% (-8.2%)
Green 0 (-8.3%)
Socialist Alliance 0 (-12.%)

Sorry, the results here are also meaningless. In your first example the major contendors were both approaching 40% - the BNP vote was merely a protest vote. In your second example the Labour vote INCREASED by more than the BNP vote, and that in a solid Labour seat. You will have to do far far far better than that to get people worried about the BNP BIg Bad Wolf party (are you afraid?)...
 
Open question - Who polls the most votes?

1) The Far Right
2) The Far Left

And we won't include UKIP in this although we should really
 
Attica said:
Sorry, the results here are also meaningless. In your first example the major contendors were both approaching 40% - the BNP vote was merely a protest vote. In your second example the Labour vote INCREASED by more than the BNP vote, and that in a solid Labour seat. You will have to do far far far better than that to get people worried about the BNP BIg Bad Wolf party (are you afraid?)...


Funny how people tend to protest vote to the right than the left. But the revo is coming make no mistake.
 
Attica said:
I have no truck with Wiberals...

Atta boy. Turn the Brigade on the IslamoTrots.

Mind you, if you think Trots or Islamists are liberals, you're even madder than I thought.
 
Lab 493 59.1% (+16.1%)
Con 172 20.6% (+1.2%)
BNP 93 11.2% (+11.2%)
Ind 76 9.1% (-8.2%)
Green 0 (-8.3%)
Socialist Alliance 0 (-12.%)

Does that make sense? What's the point in including parties that didn't stand? And why show the BNP as +11.2% when in fact their vote dropped from the last time they stood by 4.7%? Or is that just from the last full cycle of council elections? :confused:
 
Attica said:
SO you are afraid of the Big Bad Wolf. It is easier to be conservative than radical...

I'm not aware a wolf exists at present.

Surely you mean there are more conservatives than radicals

What do you mean easier?
 
JohnC said:
Lab 493 59.1% (+16.1%)
Con 172 20.6% (+1.2%)
BNP 93 11.2% (+11.2%)
Ind 76 9.1% (-8.2%)
Green 0 (-8.3%)
Socialist Alliance 0 (-12.%)

Does that make sense? What's the point in including parties that didn't stand? And why show the BNP as +11.2% when in fact their vote dropped from the last time they stood by 4.7%? Or is that just from the last full cycle of council elections? :confused:

Good question. You are right to be confused as the comparisons in brackets are rubbish. Election Statistics can be manipulated and that is what has happened with the figures in brackets.

Explanation

The last full election was fought in 2003 when there were three seats up for grabs. Only Labour stood a full slate of three candidates all of whom won; Tories and Socialist Alliance stood only one candidate apiece, Greens two candidates and there were also two independent candidates. You cannot compare performance for a by-election with only one seat, with a multi-vote election for three seats, especially when parties stand different numbers of candidates.

For example, in 2003, the Socialist Alliance candidate got 183 votes, which is only 5.9% of the total votes cast of 3,119; the three Labour candidates got 1,896 votes or 60.8% of the votes cast (ten times the SA vote and almost the same proportion as in the recent by-election), while the two Greens totalled 236 votes (full results link below). However there is an established convention when calculating % swings in multi-member seats, to calculate the average vote for each party. This is the same as the % of votes when each party stands a full slate of candidates but can produce bizarre and misleading figures when they do not.

On this basis the SA got an 'average' of 183 votes for their one candidate, the two Greens averaged 118, the sole Tory got an average of 297, the three Labour candidates averaged 632 votes. Bizarely the two independents are lumped together, despite the fact that they might have completely contradictory platforms, with an average vote of 254 votes. This gives the percentages that have been used in the figures quoted. While there is a case for saying 12% of electors chose to put one vote for the SA, their other two votes could have gone anywhere - two Labour; two Green; one Labour, one Green; two independents; one independent, one Green; etc etc.

There is no reason to assume that in a one-seat by-election, the calculated "comparison" votes from 2003 - ie "12.3%" vote for the sole SA or "42.6%" for Labour etc, have any meaning at all. Barry B is therefore wrong to say that this was a "respectable vote of 12%" for the SA, as their one candidate was standing alongside two Greens, two independents and three Labour. and supporters of any one of those parties/independents could have cast a majority (two votes) of their votes for their 'preferred party' and the SA vote could represent a minor protest. This is different to getting 12% in single seat election or in a three-member seat where every party stands three candidates. In fact even 12% of the vote for the SA, far from being respectable, would have been well below the average vote for Respect in the May 2006 elections, where in 78 wards across England, Respect had an average vote of 19.6%, Respect got more than 12% in over two-thirds (53) of these wards.



There was a by-election for Skerton West earlier in the year (June 2006) for one of the other (Lab) seats in this ward, which provides a better basis for comparison. However even this has to be used with caution, as there was no independent in this by-election, only Lab, BNP, Tory.

However, this comparison would be:

Lab 493 59.1% (-0.7%)
Con 172 20.6% (-3.7%)
BNP 93 11.2% (-4.7%)
Ind 76 9.1% (+9.1%)

Sources:

Dec 2006 by-election:
http://committeeadmin.lancaster.gov.uk/mgElectionAreaResults.asp?XXR=0&ID=66&RPID=3700&J=7

June 2006 by-election
http://committeeadmin.lancaster.gov.uk/mgElectionAreaResults.asp?XXR=0&ID=30&RPID=3697&J=4

May 2003 Full Election
http://committeeadmin.lancaster.gov.uk/mgElectionAreaResults.asp?XXR=0&ID=57&RPID=3705&J=12
 
Nicely done, Fisher_Gate. I remember the election back in 2003 (yes, I live in Lancaster) but I agree that the only sensible comparison is the most recent by-election. Indeed, that's the only relevant election worth comparing because it's the only one the BNP have stood in before.

The SA result was a bit of a shock back in 2003. It was Brian Penney, who had recently retired as Head of a local school, who stood on that occasion. Very popular and very well-known locally, he would have made a fine councillor, no matter which banner he had stood under.
 
JohnC said:
Nicely done, Fisher_Gate. I remember the election back in 2003 (yes, I live in Lancaster) but I agree that the only sensible comparison is the most recent by-election. Indeed, that's the only relevant election worth comparing because it's the only one the BNP have stood in before.

The SA result was a bit of a shock back in 2003. It was Brian Penney, who had recently retired as Head of a local school, who stood on that occasion. Very popular and very well-known locally, he would have made a fine councillor, no matter which banner he had stood under.

Penney was in the Labour Party for 30 years. He is still a school governor and member of the Lancashire Schools Forum, an important body representing school views to the County Council. He is just the sort of person Respect ought to be aiming to attract and stand in next May's elections, though it is undoubtably hindered by the "everything in Respect is great, so long as you do as SW says and don't have any ideas of your own" blinkered approach of the SWP/Galloway leadership.
 
exosculate said:
I'm not aware a wolf exists at present.

Surely you mean there are more conservatives than radicals

What do you mean easier?

So why talk up the BNP?

It is easier to promote the status quo than overthrow it - the BNP are Ultra conservatives, so they promote the logic of oppression and take it to its extreme. BUT within the same logic. Radicals have to make new logic and establishing that IS harder...
 
mutley said:
I agree it's alarming. If you work out the vote per candidate it's interesting (and scary.. but could be more so..)

2000 3022/17 = 178 votes per candidate
2002 30998/67 = 462 vpc
2003 101333/217 = 467 vpc
2004 189702/309 = 614 vpc
2006 238389/363 = 657 vpc

They obviously managed to leap forwards twice, from 2000 to 2002, then plateaued before leaping again from 2003 to 2004. the first leap coincides with the riots in 2001 and 9/11.
I'd have thought that 7/7 would have had a bigger effect, but the invasion of Iraq seems to be important.

Any other thoughts? (that's 'thoughts' not kneejerk trot-baiting)

And as i've said, my original post was to show that they can be pushed back, not that they are being pushed universally..

These are not the same areas up for election each time, ward sizes vary as do the number of seats per ward, and different parties contesting - so I'd be careful about comparing them.

The only effective national comparison is the Euro Parliament, as in that election everyone can vote BNP (and most other parties) and they are based on PR. Downside of using that is that UKIP are more likely take some of the xenophobic vote against 'foreigners', turnover is lower than general elections (though as high as local elections) and no-one much cares who wins. But it does give a stronger feeling for the 'baseline' for the support for the fascists and it's a worrying trend.

The figures for England, Scotland and Wales are:

2004:
British National Party 808,200 4.9%

1999:
British National Party 102,647 1.1%

And more specifically in their strongest English regions (ie the whole of the 'north'!):

Yorkshire & Humber 126,538 8.0% (+6.8%)
West Midlands 107,794 7.5% (+5.8%)
East Midlands 91,860 6.5% (+5.2%)
North West 134,959 6.4% (+5.1%)
North East 50,249 6.4% (+5.5%)
 
Attica said:
So why talk up the BNP?

It is easier to promote the status quo than overthrow it - the BNP are Ultra conservatives, so they promote the logic of oppression and take it to its extreme. BUT within the same logic. Radicals have to make new logic and establishing that IS harder...
New Attica - New Logic

Who wouldn't vote for that?
 
Attica said:
So why talk up the BNP?

It is easier to promote the status quo than overthrow it - the BNP are Ultra conservatives, so they promote the logic of oppression and take it to its extreme. BUT within the same logic. Radicals have to make new logic and establishing that IS harder...

Is there such a thing as new logic? How does it differ from old logic? Who decides what it is? Isn't there just logic as opposed to illogic?
 
exosculate said:
Are you using old logic?

I hope not - but it's best to check with the brigadier.

splash_screen_01.jpg
 
exosculate said:
Is there such a thing as new logic? How does it differ from old logic? Who decides what it is? Isn't there just logic as opposed to illogic?

QUestion 1 answer; Yes.

Q 2; in many different ways depending upon the subject, and in ways yet to be known...

Q 3; 'The people on the move'.

Q 4; No.
 
Attica said:
QUestion 1 answer; Yes.

Q 2; in many different ways depending upon the subject, and in ways yet to be known...

Q 3; 'The people on the move'.

Q 4; No.


You couldn't source/reference/back-up those assertions could you?
 
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