"Animal rights" terrorists Arrested

[TAE]

Most non-AR have a different set of values which rank all humans equal but animals inferior to all humans.

Isn't that the fundamental issue ? Nazis in 1930s Germany and the Ku Klux Klan REALLY DID think that some races are inferior by nature. So I think 'ism' is actually quite appropriate for a view which holds one set of living beings to be inferior to another. Saying 'I think they really are inferior' does not resolve that issue.

And I am not talking about 'different', I'm talking about 'inferior'.

 

[untethered]

Isn't that the fundamental issue ? Nazis in 1930s Germany and the Ku Klux Klan REALLY DID think that some races are inferior by nature. So I think 'ism' is actually quite appropriate for a view which holds one set of living beings to be inferior to another. Saying 'I think they really are inferior' does not resolve that issue. And I am not talking about 'different', I'm talking about 'inferior' right now.

Yes, of course it's the fundamental issue.

You can call it an "ism" if you like but I suspect the reason why the term "speciesism" isn't a mainstream word is that the concepts behind it are not widely held or agreed with.

You could coin an "ism" term for regarding plants as inferior to animals, or for non-living matter being inferior to living matter. You still wouldn't have a conceptual relation to the ideas that underpin the various human-related isms.

 

[In Bloom]

Some people could easily argue children/disabled are inferior in status to adults/able-bodied people, however abuse of these groups is perceived as abhorrent and quite rightly so.

Animals<---->The disabled.

Spot the difference.

 

[In Bloom]

A few less animal rights facists on the streets suits me.

Can't stand the self righteous human hating unhinged violent fuckers.

Oh, come on mate. They raided Fairfields for fucks sake. Why not just go smash up the local RSPCA office in case somebody who works there once went to a SHAC meeting too?

I fucking hate AR, silly, irrationalist nonsense, but that's not exactly the issue here.

 

[TAE]

-

 

[TAE]

You can call it an "ism" if you like but I suspect the reason why the term "speciesism" isn't a mainstream word is that the concepts behind it are not widely held or agreed with.

Indeed. All I'm saying is that I have started thinking about it.

You could coin an "ism" term for regarding plants as inferior to animals, or for non-living matter being inferior to living matter. You still wouldn't have a conceptual relation to the ideas that underpin the various human-related isms.

Whether something can feel pleasure and pain, i.e. knows it exists, would be a sensible distinction.

 

[XR75]

A few less animal rights facists on the streets suits me.

Can't stand the self righteous human hating unhinged violent fuckers.

Indeed.

 

[Patty]

Interesting thread. I think that most people make the mistake of applying humanistic valuses to animals. Most AR people, it seems don't have the first clue about what they are doing. For example the folks who "freed" a load of mink from a fur farm only for them to go on a killing rampage in the local area. Every cat, rabbit, chicken, small dog etc was mauled to death.
Most wild animals live a miserable existance when compared to our human understanding of things such as rights. I realy don't think that you can apply "rights" to somthing that has no capacity to understand the concept. Having said that though, speaking as someone who works with animals I can't stand to see suffreing inflicted for it's own sake, but I don't think that is the issue here though.

 

[TAE]

I realy don't think that you can apply "rights" to somthing that has no capacity to understand the concept.

I think you can - for example young children have certain rights, also mentally disabled people.

 

[october_lost]

Interesting thread. I think that most people make the mistake of applying humanistic valuses to animals. Most AR people, it seems don't have the first clue about what they are doing. For example the folks who "freed" a load of mink from a fur farm only for them to go on a killing rampage in the local area. Every cat, rabbit, chicken, small dog etc was mauled to death.
Most wild animals live a miserable existance when compared to our human understanding of things such as rights. I realy don't think that you can apply "rights" to somthing that has no capacity to understand the concept. Having said that though, speaking as someone who works with animals I can't stand to see suffreing inflicted for it's own sake, but I don't think that is the issue here though.

Without fail this red-herring is brought up everytime...animals that are released arent guarranted a better life, but a better oppurtunity than would be afforded them by fur farmers. And the issue of deep ecology isnt necessarily supported by all AR types.

Animals<---->The disabled.

Its a theoritical model allowing us to question moral status based on suffering. By what other critieria could you argue that a disabled person does have rights? And that a childs murder is more repugnant than that of a fully grown adult?

 

[Cobbles]

I think you can - for example young children have certain rights, also mentally disabled people.

So who's there to enforce the rights of a rabbit in a field that's about to have them taken away by a fox, similarly an aphid crawling along about to have its right to freedom viciously usurped by an ant that's about to enslave it?

 

[TAE]

Perhaps you think rabbits should also have the right to bear arms.

 

[detective-boy]

Perhaps you think rabbits should also have the right to bear arms.

Only American Rabbits ... it's in the Constitution, don't you know!

 

[lights.out.london]

Just thought I'd help some of you out here -

animals don't "have" anything which could be called "rights".

Animal welfare activists are confusing "rights" with preferences and choices humans make, or would like to make, regarding the husbandry and the treatment of non-sentient species.

I hope that helps.

I thangyew.

**runs for cover**

 

[In Bloom]

Its a theoritical model allowing us to question moral status based on suffering. By what other critieria could you argue that a disabled person does have rights? And that a childs murder is more repugnant than that of a fully grown adult?

I don't believe in rights. Load of liberal codswallop

Our relationship with certain animals is, inherently, an exploitative one. Any relationship between a human being and a sheep (you at the back, stop sniggering ), for instance, can only really exist on the basis that the human keeps the sheep alive (they wouldn't exactly last long in the wild), while the human is able to take something useful from the sheep (wool, meat, etc.). Similarly, human beings maintain domestic cats and dogs, while the pet provides humans with something we want (companionship, something to kill pests, etc.). What other possible relationship could exist?

Whereas our relationship with the mentally disabled (otherwise normal human beings with an illness) and children, is fundamentally different.

 

[lights.out.london]

I don't believe in rights. Load of liberal codswallop

I agree with your conclusion but not necessarily with how you arrived at it.

 

[untethered]

I do enjoy the clutching at straws appeals that AR people make to fabricate wider support. Whether it's the future generations that will apparently look back on our treatment of animals as something worse than slavery and the Holocaust combined, or co-opting the animals themselves as supporters of their campaigns, you have to give them credit for imagination.

Hats off to the police for being proactive on this one. It may be impossible to entirely eliminate the nastier end of AR activism, but it's good to give anyone considering getting involved in it no doubt about where it will lead them.

 

[TAE]

I do enjoy the clutching at straws appeals that AR people make to fabricate wider support.

Not that you would use loaded language yourself to prevent such support ...

non-sentient species

That's quite a stark assumption you are making there.

 

[TAE]

Just to avoid unnecessary confusion, I should perhaps mention that I do not support the use of violence/intimidation by AR activists.

 

[untethered]

Just to avoid unnecessary confusion, I should perhaps mention that I do not support the use of violence/intimidation by AR activists.

Very glad to hear it. Not everyone that supports the AR cause is a violent nutcase.

 

[TAE]

I'm a very peace loving nut case.

 

[The Pious Pawn]

About time to . These people are scum need locking up . Nothing wrong with disagreeing with something but these people over step the mark and set out to attack humans . Its a shame the real reason behind the raids are whats been mentioned ( money and big business ) and not the government trying to stamp out these narrow minded bigots trying to impose there views on us all .

 

[lights.out.london]

That's quite a stark assumption you are making there.

I'm not assuming anything re sentience. I've yet to read a convincing account of another sentient species (other than humans) .

Dolphins and apes are cute. Hardly sentient.

 

[guinnessdrinker]

Hats off to the police for being proactive on this one.

proactive because they were paid by big business, not because of law and order considerations dealt through the democratic process, it would appear.

 

[guinnessdrinker]

About time to . These people are scum need locking up . Nothing wrong with disagreeing with something but these people over step the mark and set out to attack humans . Its a shame the real reason behind the raids are whats been mentioned ( money and big business ) and not the government trying to stamp out these narrow minded bigots trying to impose there views on us all .

yeah, these politicians are scum need locking up. they are trying to impose their views on us all.

 

[untethered]

proactive because they were paid by big business, not because of law and order considerations dealt through the democratic process, it would appear.

Got any evidence for that?

 

[lights.out.london]

proactive because they were paid by big business, not because of law and order considerations dealt through the democratic process, it would appear.

I have an uneasy feeling that you might be right... Although Plod would vehemently deny this, of course.

 

[mattie]

yeah, these politicians are scum need locking up. they are trying to impose their views on us all.

Only the ones we vote for get to impose themselves.

 

[detective-boy]

I have an uneasy feeling that you might be right... Although Plod would vehemently deny this, of course.

You'd be wrong. Businesses squeal like fuck even when asked to contribute to public order policing - there is no way in a million years they'd fund something like this. Nor, bearing in mind the pseudo-terrorist nature of much of what happens, would they be expected to.

 

[TAE]

I've yet to read a convincing account of another sentient species (other than humans) .

What would you accept as a convincing account of another sentient species ?