kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Disestablish the CofE and let the dog collars fight it out among themselves. Would make so many other theist issues considerably easier.
Anglicanism is tearing itself apart, but the Roman Church is not. Why not?
- Thread starter JHE
- Start date
JHE
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Certainly the C of E should be disestablished.
It will be, too - though I don't expect it to happen while the current monarch is alive.
The heir to the throne, as well as being wretchedly Islamophile, has said he wants to be 'defender of faith', rather than 'defender of the faith'.
The current Archbish of Cant, before be became Archbish of Cant was in the Church of Wales, which was disestablished about a century ago and, IIRC, he spoke in favour of the disestablishment of the C of E.
Apparently, there are quite a lot of C of Eers who would like their church freed from its role as official church in England.
It was striking, following the death of the old Polish Pope, that this country's government, establishment and news media responded as if this were no longer an officially Protestant country.
I'm not sure what issues you have in mind, but I would like to think it would be easier to push for secularist policies - eg, for the phasing out of 'faith schools'.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
I didn't realize that women couldn't be bishops in the UK anglican church. They've been able to do so for many years in Canada and the US anglican churches.
I was wondering: what is it that churchmen say is wrong with women, that they can't be bishops? Are they lesser of god's creatures?
Mrs. M, how can you believe this stuff?
I was wondering: what is it that churchmen say is wrong with women, that they can't be bishops? Are they lesser of god's creatures?
Mrs. M, how can you believe this stuff?
The anglicans are trying to change the way the church works to suit modern attitudes.
The Roman church is sticking more to core values.
I understand the bible to say that homosexual sex is a sin. Assuming that I'm right in that there is no way an openly sexually active homosexual should be ordaned.
Regardless of your opinion of the teachings laid out in the bible you either choose to be a christian and follow it's teachings or don't bother. You can't just take the bits you like and call yourself a christian.
That's why the Anglicans are fucked.
scifisam
deleted
The Anglican Church is not trying to ordain actively out homosexuals, only those who admit they're homosexual and promise not to do it again, never ever, cross my heart, hope to die, and I really mean it this time.
So there isn't any problem with the - debatable - proscript against homosexuality, same as there's no proscript against straight people who've had sex without being married or anyone who did anything the church disapproves of, as long as they repent.
Which is pretty much what the Catholic priesthood have been doing for years, secretly.
Don't get me wrong it's not an any gay thing just that it was mentioned in the OP.
The same goes for straight sex outside marriage. If you want to be a christian you should follow the teachings of the Bible and not ignore the bits that are a bit rough on you. The Anglican church tends to blow more with the wind and so it is bound to create it's own problems.
Still not much of a shock when you consider that it was started by a bloke wanting easy divorces and free sex for kings.
scifisam
deleted
I know you weren't being anti-gay, and the OP wasn't either.
But, theoretically, ordaining non-practising homosexuals should confer no more difficulties upon the church than ordaining people who admit that they had straight sex before marriage. The Anglican church isn't really blowing with the wind there (nice choice of terms
) - it's actually being consistent. Religions, however, are not known for their logic.
Louloubelle
Well-Known Member
Priests get into scraps all the time, the UK press just hushes it all up
In other countries things are much more open
http://www.sowetan.co.za/News/Article.aspx?id=795895
In other countries things are much more open
http://www.sowetan.co.za/News/Article.aspx?id=795895
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
It would equalise the faith's in the eyes of the law, thus negating any possible criticisms that the law gives additional protection to Anglicanism above other faiths.
Stigmata
sexual tyrannosaurus
When one thing contradicts another (as it often does), you go with what makes the most sense and is most consistent with the overall scriptural message. I heard that in a cathedral sermon, no less.
N_igma
Epistemic nuisance
Protestant Churches tend to take the word of the Bible literally or have an interpretation of it, when a segment of the Church wants to progress another segment will look at the Bible and take a more literal view creating a more conservative sect and so on and so forth. Anglicanism is indeed very liberal and this is why it's tearing itself a part.
Roman Catholics on the other hand incorporate dogma as well as scripture into their belief system so they can change all sorts of their belief system without coming from too much criticism within their grassroots (although that's not to say there hasn't been recent splits).
Roman Catholics on the other hand incorporate dogma as well as scripture into their belief system so they can change all sorts of their belief system without coming from too much criticism within their grassroots (although that's not to say there hasn't been recent splits).
Mrs Magpie
On a bit of break...
I've not made the switch to bifocals yet.
Apologies.
I've not abandoned this thread, I will return....I only came online because someone phoned me asking me to respond to someone who's having a bad time re. SEN education, which I know a bit about, and I have been thinking about this thread....I've got to cook now and sort out washing....
The C of E is less of a religion than a political settlement. Theologically it's quite weak, which creates space for dissident voices within it and is probably why its more liberal than many other denominations. In all probability, that also accounts for its propensity for tearing itself apart.
The Catholic church can trace its lineage right back to the very early churches, and many of its core doctrines were assembled more than a millennium ago, which arguably gives it a stronger and clearer theological position than the C of E, although not one wholly resistant to change. Plus, to an outsider it looks as if the Pope's authority over the Catholic church is stronger than the Archbishop of Canterbury's over the C of E.
The Catholic church can trace its lineage right back to the very early churches, and many of its core doctrines were assembled more than a millennium ago, which arguably gives it a stronger and clearer theological position than the C of E, although not one wholly resistant to change. Plus, to an outsider it looks as if the Pope's authority over the Catholic church is stronger than the Archbishop of Canterbury's over the C of E.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
I've not made the switch to bifocals yet.
Apologies.
I've not abandoned this thread, I will return....I only came online because someone phoned me asking me to respond to someone who's having a bad time re. SEN education, which I know a bit about, and I have been thinking about this thread....I've got to cook now and sort out washing....
Three things to do. Cook, sort the washing, and come up with a short but persuasive argument as to why you believe in God and organized religion....
All in a day's work.
I'm no bible basher but I'm pretty sure that the good book is pretty clear about sex outside marriage and gay sex. Still I left my copy in England so I can't check without buying another or messing on the net and I can't be arsed.
Still, whatever, the Church in the UK isn't dead but it is coughing up blood so it has a grim (and short) future. Crappy social attitudes have seen to that.
Odd thing is that I didn't really notice until I started to travel to stricter countries where the "freedoms" may be less but people tend to be better towards each other.
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