Angela Rayner's time is up

[ska invita]

Despite the attention on Rayner, there has also been some sympathy for her in the pages of the Telegraph. Its tax columnist, the retired accountant Mike Warburton, said he, too, had been unaware of the rules Rayner had broken. “No, I am not going soft in the head and I do not want to get involved in the politics, but this is an example of one of my overriding themes: our tax rules are far too complicated,” he wrote.

“The fact is, the stamp duty rules are very complex and I have to admit that last week when I was asked about this I had not appreciated how the trust complicated matters. I can therefore understand that others can become confused. In my view we need a complete overhaul of our complex tax rules. Stamp duty would be a good place to start.”

 

[Maggot]

I don't know. Do you?

You're the one who is claiming that she's not still working class.

 

[kebabking]

cheers - I salute your knoweldge of the labour rule book!

With my good looks, wit and charm, I have to be able to repulse women somehow....

 

[PTK]

At what point did she stop being working class?

At what point could she be described as having achieved "social mobility"? The latter term means changing your socio-economic position.
Some people eulogise "social mobility", but if everyone on the botton rungs achieve it, then who is going to work in the care homes and the factories?

 

[Wilf]

You think she "supports genicide"? Really? You can't be that stupid.

Well, let's just take an example, given that 1000 people will be being arrested tomorrow: Palestine Action took actions to disrupt the genocide machine. What was Rayner's attitude towards PA's proscription? How did she vote?

 

[Wilf]

I don't agree with the ridiculously simplistic idea that every Labour MP "supports genocide" because the UK government hasn't magically stopped Israel bombing Palestine. so we can leave that derail there.

It's no fucking derail, it's about Rayner. Her actual record, supporting Israel's genocide.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Some people just have that ability to continually be absolute fuckups of the first water and just get shuffled around high office. It's a skill in itself really.

The SNP have been doing it for years.

 

[Dystopiary]

You're the one who is claiming that she's not still working class.

Because she can't be. It's not possible to be whilst that well-off materially with such a large amount of social capital.

I know what working class means and she isn't it. I don't understand the pushback on this.

 

[Wilf]

Bless you for thinking Angela Rayner could have had any influence on Israel/Palestine.

Well, she was Deputy PM. Would you apply your logic to anyone else? To Starmer?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Well, she was Deputy PM. Would you apply your logic to anyone else? To Starmer?

The deputy pm of the UK making a stand and resigning from the government over its support for genocide could have made a material difference to the way the UK has supported the genocide.

It's a hell of a lot more than most of us can do.

 

[Pickman's model]

Bless you for thinking Angela Rayner could have had any influence on Israel/Palestine.

You dont actually know what the deputy leader of the labour party does, do you, what their job is

 

[Sue]

You can't be ruling class and working class at the same time.

What if you work really hard at being ruling class?

 

[Wilf]

What if you work really hard at being ruling class?

It's a pretty good rate of pay, I imagine.

 

[Wilf]

The deputy pm of the UK making a stand and resigning from the government over its support for genocide could have made a material difference to the way the UK has supported the genocide.

It's a hell of a lot more than most of us can do.

She used to be a member of Labour Friends of Palestine and now... isn't. She has of course taken money from pro Israel lobby groups:

Two-fifths of Starmer's cabinet have received funds from pro-Israel groups, Declassified UK finds

MORE than 40 per cent of Sir Keir Starmer’s cabinet has been funded by pro-Israel groups, a new report revealed today.According to an investigation by Declassified UK, 13 of the 31 members of Labour’s shadow cabinet have received donations from a prominent pro-Israel lobby group or individual...

morningstaronline.co.uk

It was pretty obvious that joining Starmer's band meant getting on board with Israel. I doubt that her beliefs have changed, she's putting her fucking self ahead of those principles. Nice and flexible about pretty much everything.

But yes, notwithstanding her already tarnished reputation, she would have been in the perfect position to lead a high profile revolt against Starmer on Palestine and on his other policy fuck ups.

 

[belboid]

At what point could she be described as having achieved "social mobility"? The latter term means changing your socio-economic position.
Some people eulogise "social mobility", but if everyone on the botton rungs achieve it, then who is going to work in the care homes and the factories?

The current ruling class.

 

[Dystopiary]

Pity Reeves for crying as she tries to take away the money you and thousands of others need to survive.
Sympathise with the corrupt ruling class as they gleefully sweep the crumbs from people's tables and switch off their heating.

No. Fuck that. It's their victims who should have our solidarity.

 

[Wilf]

Pity Reeves for crying as she tries to take away the money you and thousands of others need to survive.
Sympathise with the corrupt ruling class as they gleefully sweep the crumbs from people's tables and switch off their heating.

No. Fuck that. It's their victims who should have our solidarity.

And that's it with Rayner, for me. Yes, certainly, I'm annoyed about her avoiding paying 40 fucking grand in tax. But the real anger is the fuck you she sends out to everyone being fucked over by her regime. The not giving a fuck about behaving with a modicum of integrity or even political nous. And ultimately it's the entitlement that she displays, like Starmer and the rest she believes she's so fucking important that it's okay to have someone currying favour buy her clothes. She might be ex-working class, she might be on the receiving end of daily mail hate, but her levels of entitlement are pretty much up there with any Old Etonian.

 

[JimW]

What if you work really hard at being ruling class?

Or you're dictating as a tribune of the proletariat? Like that nice landlord's boy Mr Mao.

 

[Dystopiary]

Pity Reeves for crying as she tries to take away the money you and thousands of others need to survive.
Sympathise with the corrupt ruling class as they gleefully sweep the crumbs from people's tables and switch off their heating.

No. Fuck that. It's their victims who should have our solidarity.

And don't dare to say these bastards aren't working class, peasant.

 

[Kaka Tim]

same old same old though isn't it?
stick to your beliefs and be excluded from power - or accept the system whilst telling yourself you can acheive some positive change within it. History and expericence says that the latter postion usually leaves you compromised and complicit in unjust power structure (whislt also benefiting from persoinally) , but you can keep telling yourself that you are makeing a differance.
The history of the parliamentary labour party is the struggle to square that circle.

As for Raynor working classness - where she came from is relevant and allowed her to credibly claim she understood the struggles that everyday people faced. Far more so than the likes of - say - Rachel Reeves.

 

[A380]

You can't be ruling class and working class at the same time.

That's not what I asked. In your opinion, how much can you earn before you can't be working class? In GB pounds for someone living in the UK.

 

[Terraform]

That's not what I asked. In your opinion, how much can you earn before you can't be working class? In GB pounds for someone living in the UK.

Well Kemi Badenoch became working class when she worked in McDonalds and was presumably on minimum wage.

 

[Dystopiary]

That's not what I asked. In your opinion, how much can you earn before you can't be working class? In GB pounds for someone living in the UK.

I don't know. Do you?

 

[Elpenor]

That's not what I asked. In your opinion, how much can you earn before you can't be working class? In GB pounds for someone living in the UK.

£1 more than whoever is asking the question earns

 

[A380]

I don't know. Do you?

I think having an arbitrary earnings level as the definition of class is simplistic to the point of stupidity and straight from the Ladybird book of revolutionary politics. It's almost as fucking stupid as, for example, arguing that a window cleaner who owned their own ladder couldn't be working class or anyone with a job couldn't be...

You seemed to think it was possible to set such a level? Fair play if you have changed your mind.

 

[Dystopiary]

I think having an arbitrary earnings level as the definition of class is simplistic to the point of stupidity and straight from the Ladybird book of revolutionary politics. It's almost as fucking stupid as, for example, arguing that a window cleaner who owned their own ladder couldn't be working class or anyone with a job couldn't be...

You seemed to think it was possible to set such a level? Fair play if you have changed your mind.

I've never got into the own-a-bucket/ladder-or-not stuff on here. It's hypothetical stuff I can't relate to.

I know what working class means and she isn't it. I don't understand the pushback on this.

 

[Elpenor]

I do agree that Rayner is no longer working class and my post at lunchtime should have really said "of working class origin and background". Clearly she was working class at one point, but perhaps not once she became a high ranking union official and certainly not when a Labour MP.

 

[mojo pixy]

I don't think it's about wealth as much as it's about power. You could be dirt poor but if you're in a position to make laws and you represent other people in parliament and your publicly-stated views carry social weight, you're part of the ruling class (albeit perhaps temporarily)

 

[andysays]

At what point did she stop being working class?

Just catching up with the thread, so I don't know if this question has been put to bed by now, but I would suggest that once anyone becomes an MP, they cease to be working class from that point on.

 

[kebabking]

Oddly, I was just thinking about this.

Scottish Urbs will remember the SSP gaining half a dozen seats in the Scottish Parliament in the early 2000's - apart from the unsavoury Tommy Sheridan, the two big hitters were Carolyn Leckie and Rosie Kane. Both were from solidly working class backgrounds, Leckie being a Midwife, they were MSP's (political power, social capital, good wage) for 4 years, and then they all lost their seats.

Leckie eventually went back to university and became a solicitor, Kane kind of drifted (the SSP imploded with Sheridan lighting the touch paper and throwing gallons of unleaded on it), and worked in the performing arts for a bit.

Kane arguably became middle class, because she was an MSP, but it would be hard to argue she remained middle class after just 4 years in the SP, and now nearly 20 years out of it, while Leckie is undoubtedly middle class.

I've always thought the subjective, movable feast of the interaction of economic class, social class, and time interesting....