Aneurin Bevan - the greatest British politician?

[phildwyer]

He was also responsible for the Marine Broadcasting Offences (& co) Act of 1967 that killed the original pirate stations.

Oooh, the utter cad. That certainly ranks among the greatest political betrayals of our time--I *don't* think!

 

[sihhi]

Benn is of a better calibre than most previous Labour MP's. But he did

a - refuse to resign when the Labour govt. introduced an IMF cuts package, wage restraint etc
b - introduce nuclear power (the by-products of which were purchased by the Pentagon), oh and it eventually was used by Thatcher to put the mining industry out of business

Benn- hard to judge.

He wasted billions on Concorde- even though groups at the time said it would be a waste of money.
He personally crafted the Marine Broadcast Offences Act.

He negotiated atomic energy contract with Rio Tinto Zinc for uranium from Namibia in 1968 in the Wilson government. Benn defended the decision to continue the purchase of uranium from Rossing mine in the 1974 government.
(Even though there was a vague promise against it in the Labour Manifesto & UN resolutions against exploiting resources from occupied countries)

He was also deeply dishonest in 1978 claiming (among other things) that he was hamstrung by the EEC into driving down wages.

Basically a Fabianist with good points and bad.

 

[sihhi]

Oooh, the utter cad. That certainly ranks among the greatest political betrayals of our time--I *don't* think!

It was a pointless and wasteful endeavour. Plenty of prosecutions at Southend Magistrates Court and elsewhere.

 

[newbie]

It was still a sell-out though. Bevan had been a strongly committed unilateralist, and mysteriously changed his mind once in office. He wasn't Kinnock's boyhood hero for nothing. Not that I disagree that Bevan was the greatest British politician of the twentieth century--at least out of those who've actually held power. Its easier to keep a clear conscience if you don't, of course.

Those that don't know how to compromise (or sell-out if you wish) can't properly exercise power because they can't reconcile opposing forces, which is what's required to hold any government together. The ones that become really powerful are always compromised and lacking in principles. And they'll always be opposed by the most principled, who will remain essentially romantic failures, forever tilting against windmills.

Of them Fenner Brockway is a far better example than Benn. Gaoled in the First World War as a political conscientious objector, consistent anti colonialist at the height of Empire, at the forefront of the ILP break with Labour about Ramsay McDonalds national government, anti-fascist during the Spanish civil war, and founder of CND who split with Bevan over that speech. If he hadn't accepted a peerage his reputation would be pretty much untarnished.

 

[tbaldwin]

Nah, all politicians have been shit except one man. And then he achieved what he did as a writer/commentator.

Benn.

All the rest were rubbish.

Our man in Thailand strikes again. Benn was/is just a classic liberal. What did he ever achieve apart from popularity with sad tossers like you?. (No offence, you twat)
I think the NHS was/is a bit better than trying to sound radical in front of other middle class radicals myself. But i'm old fashioned like that.

 

[tbaldwin]

Nah, all politicians have been shit except one man. And then he achieved what he did as a writer/commentator.

Benn.

All the rest were rubbish.

er 1000 apologies fela, I now realise you must have meant his son.HILARY!!!!!!
Who after being sent to his local comp by his radical parents. Rebelled enough against their fake radicalism (not suprising would you like to be the new boy at a london comp called Hilary) and tried to do something practical in govt to allieviate world poverty.

 

[articul8]

Oh dear. You're not really up to speed on this are you?

spare us the grotesque sordid justifications in which he wrapped up this particular sell out purrlease! In reality he was turning his back on the left who had given him a leg up into high office.

 

[editor]

spare us the grotesque sordid justifications in which he wrapped up this particular sell out purrlease! In reality he was turning his back on the left who had given him a leg up into high office.

Yes. Curse him for creating the NHS! The cad! The sell out!

And be sure to ignore every good thing he did and look away from the long political struggle and personal sacrifices he undertook throughout his life in your vital quest to score points!

Who's your nomination then?

 

[Lock&Light]

Benn.

Which Benn?

The one who was Minister of Energy under Wilson and was an enthusiastic supporter of the "White Hot Heat Of Technology which gave Britain a lot of installations which it could have done without?

Or the other Benn who did so much to keep Thatcher in power when he mistook his communications with god (you'll have noticed the lack of capital), and thought he was ordained to be Deputy Leader of the Labour Party, thereby helping to make Labour unelectable for the next umpteen years.

 

[articul8]

Yes. Curse him for creating the NHS! The cad! The sell out!

And be sure to ignore every good thing he did and look away from the long political struggle and personal sacrifices he undertook throughout his life in your vital quest to score points!

Who's your nomination then?

If you read the thread you'd see I'd nominated Sylvia Pankhurst.

Of course, the NHS was a huge achievement (although the BMA made sure they kept the right to a private practise) - and Bevan played an important role. But he wasn't all sweetness and light - and notice you're keeping quiet on his relations to the very dodgy Lord Beaverbrook!

 

[Red Faction]

Margaret Hilda Roberts worked as a research chemist for British Xylonite and then J. Lyons and Co., where she helped develop methods for preserving ice cream. She was a member of the team that developed the first soft frozen ice cream.

 

[Lock&Light]

Margaret Hilda Roberts worked as a research chemist for British Xylonite and then J. Lyons and Co., where she helped develop methods for preserving ice cream. She was a member of the team that developed the first soft frozen ice cream.

Yes,fascinating, but so what?

 

[sihhi]

Yes. Curse him for creating the NHS!

Surely he didn't create but just followed the model of Liberal William Beveridge who'd outlined the "entirely free at point of use" and broadly state-controlled health service in his 1942 Social Insurance and Allied Services (aka Beveridge report)?

 

[FreddyB]

He wasn't perfect, his 'sell out' over nuclear weapons demonstrates that but I beleive his primary motivation was and remained improving the lot of the people he represented above any personal gain or glorification. In that sense he stands head and shoulders over almost every other person who has entered the commons.

 

[phildwyer]

Surely he didn't create but just followed the model of Liberal William Beveridge who'd outlined the "entirely free at point of use" and broadly state-controlled health service in his 1942 Social Insurance and Allied Services (aka Beveridge report)?

It would never have come to pass without Bevan's determination and commitment. Such plans will always face vocal opposition from doctors and other vested interests. Look how easily they derailed Clinton's scheme. Credit where its due, please.

 

[exosculate]

Beveridge set out the post WW2 welfare state (he was a Liberal) and had cross party support.

 

[Lock&Light]

He wasn't perfect, his 'sell out' over nuclear weapons

His so-called sell out later became the accepted policy of all British political parties retaining any pretence to power.

 

[articul8]

I beleive his primary motivation was and remained improving the lot of the people he represented above any personal gain or glorification. In that sense he stands head and shoulders over almost every other person who has entered the commons.

So why was a 'socialist' and anti-fascist happy to sip champagne at the parties thrown by millionaire appeaser (and owner of the Evening Standard, Daily Express etc., Lord Beaverbrook), at one or other of his palatial mansions.

Doubt the folks left back in the valleys would have approved.

 

[FreddyB]

So why was a 'socialist' and anti-fascist happy to sip champagne at the parties thrown by millionaire appeaser (and owner of the Evening Standard, Daily Express etc., Lord Beaverbrook), at one or other of his palatial mansions.

Doubt the folks left back in the valleys would have approved.

I can't say for sure, obviouslty I never met him but I'd like to think the answer is in your question.

 

[phildwyer]

So why was a 'socialist' and anti-fascist happy to sip champagne at the parties thrown by millionaire appeaser (and owner of the Evening Standard, Daily Express etc., Lord Beaverbrook, at one or other of his palatial mansions.

Doubt the folks left back in the valleys would have approved.

Actually, Bevan was physically thrown out of the Atheneum (I think, one of the posh Gentlemen's clubs anyway) after he had made a speech describing the Tory party as "lower than vermin."

 

[articul8]

His so-called sell out later became the accepted policy of all British political parties retaining any pretence to power.

the power of US imperialism and NATO, that is. Some hadn't sold out on the fight for a different kind of 'power'.

 

[Red Faction]

Yes,fascinating, but so what?

one of her many fine, fine achievements- something we should all be extremely grateful for.

and then she went on to become the greatest British politician

 

[Lock&Light]

So why was a 'socialist' and anti-fascist happy to sip champagne at the parties thrown by millionaire appeaser (and owner of the Evening Standard, Daily Express etc., Lord Beaverbrook, at one or other of his palatial mansions.

Doubt the folks left back in the valleys would have approved.

Why do you feel that you have to give ammunition to those who would gladly like to describe the left-wing of politics as being animated by some sort of base motive of envy?

 

[sihhi]

It would never have come to pass without Bevan's determination and commitment. Such plans will always face vocal opposition from doctors and other vested interests. Look how easily they derailed Clinton's scheme. Credit where its due, please.

Doctors and the BMA did derail his scheme. Plenty of hospitals remained private and the hours required to work NHS to be an "NHS doctor" and receive NHS salary were much reduced.

 

[phildwyer]

Doctors and the BMA did derail his scheme. Plenty of hospitals remained private and the hours required to work NHS to be an "NHS doctor" and receive NHS salary were much reduced.

Bevan's NHS wasn't perfect, that wasn't his fault, he resigned over prescription charges, and the system he set up was 10 times better than it is now. Of all the many crimes Tony Blair has committed, the demolition of the NHS is the second worst.

 

[articul8]

Why do you feel that you have to give ammunition to those who would gladly like to describe the left-wing of politics as being animated by some sort of base motive of envy?

I think that MP's who aspire to represent the working class should take the wage of an average worker. Not down Moet and hob-nob with para-fascists.

And Nye's "lower-than-vermin" was a good left soundbite (leaving people to think "ooh, he must really hate the Tories). Meanwhile: "I say Max [Beaverbrook] could you pass the Bollinger old chap"!

 

[phildwyer]

I think that MP's who aspire to represent the working class should take the wage of an average worker. Not down Moet and hob-nob with para-fascists.

And Nye's "lower-than-vermin" was a good left soundbite (leaving people to think "ooh, he must really hate the Tories). Meanwhile: "I say Max [Beaverbrook] could you pass Bollinger old chap"!

Bullshit. He hated them alright. I'm quoting from memory--this is one of the only quotes I've ever memorized--but it went something like: "no amount of cajolary can ever eradicate from my heart a deep, burning hatred of the Tory party. As far as I am concerned, they are lower than vermin."

 

[articul8]

fine words - which no doubt went down very well back home. But how does this sit re his cosy relationship with media magnates and Tory benefactors?

 

[tbaldwin]

Bevan's NHS wasn't perfect, that wasn't his fault, he resigned over prescription charges, and the system he set up was 10 times better than it is now. Of all the many crimes Tony Blair has committed, the demolition of the NHS is the second worst.

Funny that. The demolition of the NHS. Exactly what are you basing that on?
There has been a huge increase in money for the NHS and only a sixth form anarchist would try and claim its all gone to private companies. It hasnt its gone on saving peoples lives, mine included hopefully.

 

[Lock&Light]

fine words - which no doubt went down very well back home. But how does this sit re his cosy relationship with media magnates and Tory benefactors?

If his politics had followed your guidelines he would never even have been accepted into the Cabinet.

Only a degree of compromise can hope to prevent a counter-revolution.

And we don't want one of them, do we?