Donna Ferentes
jubliado
Actually, if it said "tosspot and a twat" you might very well get nicked. Not that I'm disagreeing with your point in general.
And the current state of the UK is...?
- Thread starter fela fan
- Start date
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
I'm sure absolutely nothing would happen to you if you walked down a Pyongyang high street with a sign that read "The UK's beloved leader is a tosspot and twat"...jæd said:Ok, so you think the UK is a police state...? Tell you what, I will walk down the Oxford Street with a sign that says "Our beloved Leader is a tosspot and twat". You can go and do that down the main shopping street of North Koreas capital, Pyongyang. I wonder who would get arrested first...?
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
Especially if you did it in Parliament Square.Donna Ferentes said:
Andy the Don
Wise men say only fools..
greenman said:
Yes in ONE..
My sister is a teacher at a girls school. To her it appears that some of the total no-hopers are just waiting to be "famous", but not for anything tangible, but they are waiting to be "discovered" on Big Brother or for their "music" (usually some shit R+B or crap garage MC'ing)
Hardly anyone wants to put the effort in anymore. They want it now, "cause its my right innit.."
And if by some chance fame & fortunes fickle finger does not point to them, then the rest of us can pay for their life of fags & alcho-pops "cause its their rights innit.." (fuck me I'm sounding like a Daily Mail editorial.)The Daily Mail et al cannot lose really - they and their ilk play their major part in creating the conditions for this culture to flourish - i.e promoting Thatcherite neo-liberal economics, anti-intellectualism (the hell-spawn Melanie Phillips, anyone?), an education system that "concentrates on the 'three R's and meets the needs of business" (rather than helping create rounded individuals that want to learn and can actually function above the level of infantilism or helotry). They encourage the extreme individualism, division, racism, snobbishness, feelings of inadequacy, ruthless competition and 'keeping up with the Jones's' long-hours culture that makes life so unpleasant for so many who then seek solace in hedonism, drug abuse, alcoholism etc.
They then attack the resulting culture and society and blame its' problems on "liberalism" or unwelcome decline of religion (tell that to the people of Iran, Baghdad or Belfast) or 'socialism' (what??)
and suggest that if only we followed their political line (not really that different from when they were saying "Hurrah for the Blackshirts!") everything would be OK.
They then attack the resulting culture and society and blame its' problems on "liberalism" or unwelcome decline of religion (tell that to the people of Iran, Baghdad or Belfast) or 'socialism' (what??)
and suggest that if only we followed their political line (not really that different from when they were saying "Hurrah for the Blackshirts!") everything would be OK.Good post greenman, and i have to say the mail is insidious. It's a really disgusting newspaper, although others are not far behind, and the fact that it exists in britain, never mind being one of the most popular is, i'm afraid, a poor reflection on our country.
I hear regular updates on the state of britain via daily mail readers. To be honest i'm never sure i can believe what i hear. I know the mail is shit and likes to exaggerate, amongst its other crimes, but if what i hear is even partlyl true, then the country is in very bad need of a big fix.
And just to make clear, i do not base my opinions on britain via these updates. I have plenty of other sources, never mind my own experiences of having lived there for three decades, and all my visits back.
I find it sad that our good stuff gets knocked and buried, and that folk are often embarrassed about it. Instead a vacuous society of people trying to be famous, of banging on about their rights, of enjoying humiliating others, of enjoying seeing others being humiliated, of incredulous amounts of security and safety measures, and of a nasty police force, and of killer politicians. And so it goes on.
The good stuff is slowly being snuffed out.
I hear regular updates on the state of britain via daily mail readers. To be honest i'm never sure i can believe what i hear. I know the mail is shit and likes to exaggerate, amongst its other crimes, but if what i hear is even partlyl true, then the country is in very bad need of a big fix.
And just to make clear, i do not base my opinions on britain via these updates. I have plenty of other sources, never mind my own experiences of having lived there for three decades, and all my visits back.
I find it sad that our good stuff gets knocked and buried, and that folk are often embarrassed about it. Instead a vacuous society of people trying to be famous, of banging on about their rights, of enjoying humiliating others, of enjoying seeing others being humiliated, of incredulous amounts of security and safety measures, and of a nasty police force, and of killer politicians. And so it goes on.
The good stuff is slowly being snuffed out.
Epicurus said:So its all the fault of a newspaper is it
No , not all
The DM is both a symptom and contributory factor to Britain's malaise. But they did not invent Thatcherism and neo-liberalism. They did not impose turbo-consumerism. They do not choose to produce the tawdry cultural products (High, Low or Middle Brow), or market the narcotics or alcohol in the way that they are pushed.
We need to look, dare I say it, in an analytical way, at whose interests the DM really serves - Cui Bono? What interests own and control and benefit from the mass media and mass culture in Britain? Likewise, who has real control over what cultural models or patterns of consumption are followed in Britain? (Clue - it ain't the 'General Public' in any meaningful sense despite the purveyors' protestations that , like smack dealers, they are 'only meeting demand')
All DM style bollocks about 'freedom of choice' determining the culture should be seen in terms of this crack/smack dealer analogy too.
Error Gorilla
My spoon is too big
greenman said:The Daily Mail et al cannot lose really - they and their ilk play their major part in creating the conditions for this culture to flourish - i.e promoting Thatcherite neo-liberal economics, anti-intellectualism (the hell-spawn Melanie Phillips, anyone?), an education system that "concentrates on the 'three R's and meets the needs of business" (rather than helping create rounded individuals that want to learn and can actually function above the level of infantilism or helotry). They encourage the extreme individualism, division, racism, snobbishness, feelings of inadequacy, ruthless competition and 'keeping up with the Jones's' long-hours culture that makes life so unpleasant for so many who then seek solace in hedonism, drug abuse, alcoholism etc.
They then attack the resulting culture and society and blame its' problems on "liberalism" or unwelcome decline of religion (tell that to the people of Iran, Baghdad or Belfast) or 'socialism' (what??)
For me it's the default mode of perpetual incandescent anger that one encounters the like of Peter Hitchens and Mentally Phillips in that's most curious. Why are they always so bloody annoyed?
rhys gethin
New Member
Error Gorilla said:
Wouldn't you be if you had to tell silly lies for your living, and bear the contempt of everyone intelligent you ever met? You'd have to project your self-disgust on every passer-by to be able to live with yourself at all, I should think.
The state of the country is shit and you are all as responsible as Blair or Thatcher and as for the lazy ex pat fanny who started this thread = prime example 
Epicurus said:So its all the fault of a newspaper is it
I hope you don't underestimate the huge role that media have in shaping people's lives in this day and age.
In britain they are a disgrace, yet simultaneously they reflect the average briton's views and values. And they are thus in a big way responsible for the garbage that goes on in britain.
I'm not sure navel gazing in the hope of working out what is and isn't wrong with contemporary Britain is going to achieve anything. Sure there are certain cultural manifestations such as our drinking culture that raise alarm bells in some quarters, but when you go onto to look at issues like personal debt, concerns about immigration, our situation has to be placed in a broader context. Namely the seeming triumph of a neo-liberal doctrine that sees the market as the only way of organising society. Different countries do take different approaches in trying to implement this but they are all underpinned by the same basic assumptions.
One key difference with Britain is that as it was the first country to industrialise, it is furthest down the line in trying to come to terms with a post industrial economy. However, other Western nations will find get to that point sooner or later. Suffice to say, the adjustment to a post industrial economy is painful and has marginalised significant chunks of the working class. We are stuck with an economy that is based on the service sector and consumerism. A consequence of this is the high level of personal debt people have been encouraged to take on to keep what is essentially a rentier economy going. This debt, the marginalisation of large sections of the working class and other factors relating to the impact of neo-liberalism and globalisation do offer some explanations of why we are where we are....
One key difference with Britain is that as it was the first country to industrialise, it is furthest down the line in trying to come to terms with a post industrial economy. However, other Western nations will find get to that point sooner or later. Suffice to say, the adjustment to a post industrial economy is painful and has marginalised significant chunks of the working class. We are stuck with an economy that is based on the service sector and consumerism. A consequence of this is the high level of personal debt people have been encouraged to take on to keep what is essentially a rentier economy going. This debt, the marginalisation of large sections of the working class and other factors relating to the impact of neo-liberalism and globalisation do offer some explanations of why we are where we are....
I quite like Peter Hitchens. Whatever you think of his politics, he strikes me as quite a decent bloke.
Melanie Phillips, on the other hand, is a complete and utter ______ (insert your own expletive here)
Melanie Phillips, on the other hand, is a complete and utter ______ (insert your own expletive here)
I think what will happen next has already started happening and that is a mass exodus of people who can afford to leave will leave.treelover said:
It was only in the last couple of weeks where a survey said something like 75% of British people want to leave and while I’m not sure it is that high I can tell you that many of the people I meet and if this comes up in conversation they all seem to want to go.
I have been here 7 years and I know of between 20 and 30 families that have left the UK all of them British people who have left to “find a better life abroad”, two have returned as it didn’t workout for them but they are both looking to leave again but this time they want to go to a country where English is the main language.
I think many British people are now realising that the UK isn’t a place to grow old.
treelover said:
Difficult one to call this. The government realises that on the one hand, the current level of personal debt is not sustainable and that it has to be eased down to a level that is. Their problem is trying to do this without inflicting too much pain - I somehow think this is impossible. Yet the government also is aware that one of the few dynamic sectors of the economy - the retail sector - is kept afloat by personal debt. If they move too fast in attemting to bring down debt levels, they run the risk of doing some very serious damage to the retail sector that would have a massive impact on the economy as a whole. In other words, they are moving to a situation where they are up the proverbial creek without a paddle.
Whatever course they take, they know that a significant proportion of the population is going to be hit. I'm now moving into the realms of speculative thinking... If they know the pain is going to come anyway, the sensible thing is to embark upon a project of lowering people's expectations, not just in terms of material progress but also levels of public services.
This is where the green agenda could be helpful in lowering people's expectations. It may be me but the media seems to be full of articles and feature that all indicate we should rein in our consumption. Within the middle class opinion formers, there is a growing consensus that people are going to have to settle for less in terms of lifestyle expectations and possessions.
While all of this may sound like a good idea to many (and I suspect, quite a few people on this board), essentially we are being told to know our place and be content with our lot. With the way the working class seems to be getting it in the neck with criticisms of our lifestyles and expectations, we are being set up for something pretty nasty if we don't watch it...
rhys gethin
New Member
fela fan said:
Or perhaps we just don't like one another very much. But mostly I think it is the fault of Thatcher and Bliar. Most bad things are.
rhys gethin
New Member
fela fan said:
It wan't totally serious. I think, though, that until recently we've been people who believed in things - like going to set up the New Jerusalem somewhere else, if we couldn't get it here, and the squalid cynicism of those two scumbags and their followers makes us wither and die. Yes - left to ourselves I think we are hugely creative peoples. Such a little place, so much achieved! What we could do without the grovellers!
My thoughts on that msn article with this being my first post:
I think Britain has become a kind of 'empty' society due to a number of reasons such as social fragmentation/marginalisation, decline of religion, with the
result that there is no overall faith or belief apart from consumerism. Politically, there is no inspiring idealogy
remaining either.
So that leaves us with faith in science/technology, but with
globalisation and the emergence of China/India etc, what is the future of the UK in this regard? Or is it really a managed decline
I think Britain has become a kind of 'empty' society due to a number of reasons such as social fragmentation/marginalisation, decline of religion, with the
result that there is no overall faith or belief apart from consumerism. Politically, there is no inspiring idealogy
remaining either.
So that leaves us with faith in science/technology, but with
globalisation and the emergence of China/India etc, what is the future of the UK in this regard? Or is it really a managed decline
Another negative blight these days is the media. The press coverage of the ashes is vicious. The language used by the writers and the headline compilers is unbelievably nasty. Either the lads can be total heroes, or they must be humiliated in front of the whole nation.
It's why we win so little in the major sports, the players know full well what awaits them if they can't win or can't perform to the expectations of the pissed crew from fleet street. This brings in undue fears and then look what happens.
Personally i've always hated the english press, the way they glorify or humiliate famous people and sports stars. What part the british psyche plays in this is not quite clear to me, but those papers are bought by the public.
The language being used to cover our cricketers at the moment is simply anti-human, and a disgrace to all english people. Shameful to a massive degree.
I don't think we're a nation very comfortable with itself, and i don't think british people in general are very comfortable with themselves and their lives. There are just too many indicators that lead to this conclusion.
It's why we win so little in the major sports, the players know full well what awaits them if they can't win or can't perform to the expectations of the pissed crew from fleet street. This brings in undue fears and then look what happens.
Personally i've always hated the english press, the way they glorify or humiliate famous people and sports stars. What part the british psyche plays in this is not quite clear to me, but those papers are bought by the public.
The language being used to cover our cricketers at the moment is simply anti-human, and a disgrace to all english people. Shameful to a massive degree.
I don't think we're a nation very comfortable with itself, and i don't think british people in general are very comfortable with themselves and their lives. There are just too many indicators that lead to this conclusion.
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