And...here come the thought police! Student Siddique guilty of angry thoughts.

[nosos]

what about information on how to groom kids for paedos?

On what basis: censoring it because it's wrong or censoring it because there's a well articulated empirical case which demonstrates the link between the national government censoring that information and peodophiles being significantly less able to abuse children?

 

[nosos]

So you don't have a problem with someone giving instructions on how to blow people up. Along with flegmatic encouragement that it is their duty to carry out such actions?

I don't think there's an empirical link between the British government failing to censor this information and actual incidence of terrorist attacks. Without such a link, you're basically censoring information because you consider it wrong and that's a fucking dangerous road to travel down. I don't see the relationship between this legislation and an actual impact on operative terrorism*. In the absense of such a relationship - which should be demonstrated by Government as the only justification for censorship - it strikes me as an easy way to score points in frothy mainstream political discourse: "look, we've caught us another terrorist!". Likewise, in encouraging a superifical approach it diverts attention from the more fundamental issues relevant to 'fighting terror'.

*Unless you follow China's lead attempting to censor the internet is pretty worthless

 

[xenon]

On what basis: censoring it because it's wrong or censoring it because there's a well articulated empirical case which demonstrates the link between the national government censoring that information and peodophiles being significantly less able to abuse children?

Well that is usually the purpose of instruction. Teaching someone how to do something they previously didn't know how to do.

 

[DrRingDing]

^ do you think so?



and



Fair cop. Good luck inside.

Is it fuck a "fair cop".

I have several books on guerilla warfare, how to improvise weapons etc

Call yourself a punk

 

[xenon]

I don't think there's an empirical link between the British government failing to censor this information and actual incidence of terrorist attacks. Without such a link, you're basically censoring information because you consider it wrong and that's a fucking dangerous road to travel down.

Don't be rediculous. You need evidence to show that training enables peple to do things they couldn't before. Are those AQ training camps fine then. They're only passing on information and instruction.

 

[xenon]

Is it fuck a "fair cop".

I have several books on guerilla warfare, how to improvise weapons etc

Call yourself a punk

Have you made the information publically available and encouraged others to take violent action? ^ As said up there. Doesn't sound like he was just collecting info out of curiosity.

 

[lights.out.london]

Is it fuck a "fair cop".

I have several books on guerilla warfare, how to improvise weapons etc

Call yourself a punk

I have a problem when people hide behind religion. I have a problem when the brunt of 'Jihad' is borne by ordinary working people. I have a problem with white middle class panty-wetting Islamofascist apologists whose muddle-headed liberalism is a tacit endorsement of a war on the working class.

/dismount high horse

Yeah. I'm a punk.

 

[nosos]

Well that is usually the purpose of instruction. Teaching someone how to do something they previously didn't know how to do.

I could instruct you in critical thinking but it wouldn't necessarily have any impact on your ability to take apart an argument.

 

[nosos]

Don't be rediculous. You need evidence to show that training enables peple to do things they couldn't before

Yes you do but that's neither here nor there. What's relavent is that you need evidence to show that training (without us seeing the material I don't think we're in a position to judge whether it constitutes 'training' any more than the anarchist cookbook does) impacts on the likelyhgood of people actually carrying out acts rather than merely being theoretically capable of them.

Are those AQ training camps fine then.

Er, I've never looked into it myself but I'd be fairly sure there's an easily demonstrable link between terrorist training camps and terror.

But again that's neither here nor there. Firstly because afaik there's been no hint of operationally significant terrorist training camps operating within Britain and secondly because criminalising terrorist training camps is an entirely different matter to criminalising information.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

What did he actually do? I mean specifically. Not some paraphrase copied off the report.

 

[nosos]

I have a problem when people hide behind religion. I have a problem when the brunt of 'Jihad' is borne by ordinary working people. I have a problem with white middle class panty-wetting Islamofascist apologists whose muddle-headed liberalism is a tacit endorsement of a war on the working class.

Well thank fuck clear thinking folk like you are around otherwise we'd all be fucked.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

We had this debate once before, I recall, when the bloke was sent down - completely wrongly in my view - for chanting stupid slogans outside the Danish Embassy.

At the time I pointed but he was doing nothing that isn't done by people on discussion boards every day, including, to be frank, this one.

I also pointed out that normally under British law it has been considered necessary, in oreder to be convicted, of doing or trying to do something specific: of recruiting or trying to recruit certain people to carry out specific acts, join specific organisations and so on. Just shouting "someone should kill Margaret Thatcher", for instance, is not an offence.

 

[nosos]

I also pointed out that normally under British law it has been considered necessary, in oreder to be convicted, of doing or trying to do something specific: of recruiting or trying to recruit certain people to carry out specific acts, join specific organisations and so on. Just shouting "someone should kill Margaret Thatcher", for instance, is not an offence.

But criminalising one instance establishes a very fucking dangerous norm to the effect of making it much easier to justify criminalising someone shouting "kill Margaret Thatcher" at a later date.

 

[lights.out.london]

Well thank fuck clear thinking folk like you are around otherwise we'd all be fucked.

Aw. Shucks. I do my best, y'know?

 

[ymu]

For me the clincher is that he set up a website to propagate the information he found on how to make bombs and take apart weapons. This is not passive information gathering to satisfy curiosity. It is actively encouraging others to commit acts of terrorism. I find him guilty. It seems there is to be an appeal so I don't know if that means the issue remains sub judice though.

There's fuck all information in there about what he actually set up - I've been trying to find some and it's all very vague.

I helped set up 3 free websites just last week - a blog, a wiki and a bulletin board. If they were intended to be teen angry wank fantasy type places, they could easily contain a lot of posturing bullshit and fuck all else. I might not even have posted much of it.

I have not yet seen a case anyone should have to answer in a civilised, intelligent, doesn't need to be chivvied into supporting a state of permanent war, society. Have you? Really?

 

[nosos]

I do my best, y'know?

I can tell that you do

Could we try unpacking that passage? Or was it conciously polemic?

 

[Donna Ferentes]

It's not, as far as I'm aware, illegal to publish books explaining how weapons are made and used.

 

[lights.out.london]

I can tell that you do

..and let's face it, with some of the drivel on here, you're just grateful to have me, aren't you?

e2a -

Could we try unpacking that passage? Or was it conciously polemic?

Ooh! You little edit-fiend, you.

Polemic? That's pretty mild for me on this topic.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

This is an interesting story from July suggesting that putting such instructions on the Web should become a criminal offence across the EU. It does not suggest that it is an offence already in Britain (or indeed that it is not).

 

[editor]

What did he actually do? I mean specifically. Not some paraphrase copied off the report.

Dunno, but I wouldn't fancy a night in front of the video around his house:

A further charge of breach of the peace related to claims that he showed students at Glasgow Metropolitan College images of suicide bombers and terrorist beheadings..

A computer disc found hidden under a carpet in the accused's family home contained images including Islamic extremists looting the body of a dead US serviceman.

Strange that the accused refused to give evidence tho'.

 

[ymu]

I have a problem when people hide behind religion. I have a problem when the brunt of 'Jihad' is borne by ordinary working people. I have a problem with white middle class panty-wetting Islamofascist apologists whose muddle-headed liberalism is a tacit endorsement of a war on the working class.

Fuck sake! Islam has nothing more to do with terrorism than Catholicism or Protestantism in NI, or Judaism in Palestine or those Christian-Hindu-Buddhist-secular mix-ups the Tamil Tigers. Half the Palestinian "terrorists" are fucking communists and very fucking secular ffs!

People are angry for a fucking good reason. The fact that some manipulative cunts have hijacked that anger in the name of a perfectly innocent religion is irrelevant.

Perhaps if we hadn't just slaughtered 5 times as many Iraqis as Saddam ever did, in a tenth of the time, and reduced their living conditions to a living death, perhaps they might not be so fucking angry? I know I wouldn't be.

 

[Hocus Eye.]

...

...I have not yet seen a case anyone should have to answer in a civilised, intelligent, doesn't need to be chivvied into supporting a state of permanent war, society. Have you? Really?

Can you put that again in some different words? I don't understand you.

 

[ymu]

This is an interesting story from July suggesting that putting such instructions on the Web should become a criminal offence across the EU. It does not suggest that it is an offence already in Britain (or indeed that it is not).

Laws? Who needs laws? He was so obviously a wrong-thinking scumbag, we should be grateful that our police and justice systems are not bound by such trivialities as laws!

 

[ymu]

Can you put that again in some different words? I don't understand you.

See my post above.

 

[lights.out.london]

Fuck sake! Islam has nothing more to do with terrorism than Catholicism or Protestantism in NI, or Judaism in Palestine or those Christian-Hindu-Buddhist-secular mix-ups the Tamil Tigers. Half the Palestinian "terrorists" are fucking communists and very fucking secular ffs!

People are angry for a fucking good reason. The fact that some manipulative cunts have hijacked that anger in the name of a perfectly innocent religion is irrelevant.

Perhaps if we hadn't just slaughtered 5 times as many Iraqis as Saddam ever did, in a tenth of the time, and reduced their living conditions to a living death, perhaps they might not be so fucking angry? I know I wouldn't be.

^ Ah. Tired and irrelevant.

You tried to sensationalise a thread by using a lie.

He's going to prison. Maybe someone will kick some sense into him. Maybe when he feels the pain of breaking bones, fear and desperation, this young angry man...just doing what all young people do...will realise that glorifying violence and inciting others to kill in the name of 'Allah' is wrong. Maybe.

What is manipulative is how you're trying to tie this man's actions in my country (Scotland) to a war in Iraq.

Your point about deaths in Iraq is vaccuous and morally meaningless.

 

[nosos]

Polemic? That's pretty mild for me on this topic.

So you actually do think that everyone who disagrees with you is an anti-working class islamophile hiding behind religion?

 

[nosos]

Laws? Who needs laws? He was so obviously a wrong-thinking scumbag, we should be grateful that our police and justice systems are not bound by such trivialities as laws!

Well precisely: letting this sort of thing go unscrutinised seems to license the sort of non-rational hand-clapping you see on this thread and that's worrying.

 

[lights.out.london]

So you actually do think that everyone who disagrees with you is an anti-working class islamophile hiding behind religion?

Only white middle class liberals with wet panties who apologise for the actions of Jihadists; often at dinner parties. IME the liberals normally get on to this topic just after pudding and just before they throw their car keys into the middle of the dining table.

 

[nosos]

He's going to prison. Maybe someone will kick some sense into him. Maybe when he feels the pain of breaking bones, fear and desperation, this young angry man...just doing what all young people do...will realise that glorifying violence and inciting others to kill in the name of 'Allah' is wrong. Maybe.

Yay! PKs back!!!!

 

[lights.out.london]

Yay! PKs back!!!!