'anarchy' or 'anarchism' - time to dump em?

[soulman]

maybe... But the point which hasn't been widely discussed yet is that 'anarchy' has connotations PREDATING anarchism. its not the 'wrong' interpretation or a a smear, my point is that it actually means some nasty chaos shaboodle - in the dictionary.

No it doesn't. Every dictionary definition of anarchy I've seen supplies a couple of meanings. For example dictionary.com's definition (only because it's close to hand) - http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=anarchy

Definition of anarchism - http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=anarchism

 

[Taxamo Welf]

yes 2 meanings, fine. Iknew that, i meant that.
But still 2 meanings. And one of them is more common, and predates ours.

 

[rednblack]

well tbh if people ask me what i believe in i often just say it's working class self organisation to get what we want, and then i explain what i mean by that (the anarchist explanation) and if they want to talk further i go into anarchism and or libertarian communism

 

[Taxamo Welf]

talk further...?

I bet you don't get past 'working class self organising' before they go talk to someone about footy instead

 

[rednblack]

I bet you don't get past 'working class self organising' before they go talk to someone about footy instead

 

[Taxamo Welf]

and i bet you'd made an effort to fit in with your england shirt n all

...sorry

 

[pilchardman]

It's not something to get too worked up about, really. But I don't think we should hold our collective breath for anarchy to be dropped as a synonym for chaos.

 

[Chuck Wilson]

How about monte-ism?

 

[pilchardman]

How about monte-ism?

Golf?

 

[Taxamo Welf]

It's not something to get too worked up about, really. But I don't think we should hold our collective breath for anarchy to be dropped as a synonym for chaos.

but this is my point: its not that the term has been hijacked*, thats what the term actually means! There is no basis for dropping the chaos meaning. The bigger, longer used and more widely used meaning is the chaos one. No one has said i'm wrong here. I'm waiting for butchers though

*well it was - by anarchists!

 

[Taxamo Welf]

How about monte-ism?

How about not kicking off on my thread?

Ta

 

[pilchardman]

I'm not against words changing their meaning, you nice girl.

 

[rednblack]

sometimes i prefer libertarian communism, because it says what we are for, rather than what we are against, it's a positive rather than negative statement, however i think communism does have far more negative conotations than anarchism at least in english speaking countries

maybe we need a new term altogether, working class self organisation is too long winded, working class action sounds too trot like...

it depends what mood i'm in, i'm sure i've talked about this with you before tax, what was the conclusion then?

 

[Chuck Wilson]

How about not kicking off on my thread?

Ta

Your thread? Property is theft pet.

 

[pilchardman]

There must be words out there nobody uses any more. Maybe we could just have one of those?

 

[Taxamo Welf]

hmmm.

Er probably something like 'do rather than say, the media will gie us a label once we're making an impact*'. But TBH can't remember having a convo about it.

What do ppl think of the term autonomous whilst we're on it?





*and no matter what you do or try, from serial killers to social movements, the label the tabloids give you sticks and you'll end up using it yourself.

 

[Taxamo Welf]

Your thread? Property is theft pet.

you know, in even thought of that one myself.

PS to the man who wrote that statement, small amounts of property are not theft; consider this thread my allotment/peasant cottage

 

[rednblack]

*and no matter what you do or try, from serial killers to social movements, the label the tabloids give you sticks and you'll end up using it yourself.

and it will always be shit, it's not like we're some corporate product that they might like if it presents itself in the right way, they will always try to make us look like cunts

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

sometimes i prefer libertarian communism, because it says what we are for, rather than what we are against, it's a positive rather than negative statement, however i think communism does have far more negative conotations than anarchism at least in english speaking countries

maybe we need a new term altogether, working class self organisation is too long winded, working class action sounds too trot like...

it depends what mood i'm in, i'm sure i've talked about this with you before tax, what was the conclusion then?

what's wrong with the term the levellers then ?

not the band but the concept that each person is treated on an equal or 'level' manner... ?

 

[Taxamo Welf]

to RnB

i know. But if its a good name, keep it.

This does remind me of when Blair called one G8 riot an 'anarchist travelling circus' and then at the next one there was a banner with 'anarchist travelling circus' on it. This may have been the origin of the clowns , and as such is a autionary tale of when not to embrace the label.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

erm the clowns have been around for at least 5 years that i can remeber ... the sythn circ which we were last at had a film by them playing as dwen tried to tell me about his essay

 

[pilchardman]

they will always try to make us look like cunts

Ain't that the truth.

 

[rednblack]

what's wrong with the term the levellers then ?

not the band but the concept that each person is treated on an equal or 'level' manner... ?

i quite like it, though it has a few too many conotations of crusties called jeremy

there's the national levellers association in japan (the real name of burukumin liberation league) who defend the interests of the japanese underclass

hmm yes, national levellers association...

 

[Taxamo Welf]

what's wrong with the term the levellers then ?

not the band but the concept that each person is treated on an equal or 'level' manner... ?

''They were labelled 'Levellers' by their enemies, who claimed that they were intent on bringing all down to the lowest common level. This was a charge that they vehemently denied, but they adopted the name because it was how they were known to the majority of people.''

how relevant was that!!

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

i quite like it, though it has a few too many conotations of crusties called jeremy

there's the national levellers association in japan (the real name of burukumin liberation league) who defend the interests of the japanese underclass

hmm yes, national levellers association...

i like the concept although the original crusties were notiable protesters too but national?

levellers sans frontiers shurely

 

[montevideo]

Your thread? Property is theft pet.

you tell him chuck, all these southern upstarts, drinking our women, stealing our marrows.

Always described myself as a working class anarchist. Never had any problems with that other than from politicos & anti-socials to be fair.

To taxamo: i lend you my copy of 'the haymarket tragedy'. Kinda puts things in perspective.

 

[rednblack]

national confederation of workers? (cnt)

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

''They were labelled 'Levellers' by their enemies, who claimed that they were intent on bringing all down to the lowest common level. This was a charge that they vehemently denied, but they adopted the name because it was how they were known to the majority of people.''

how relevant was that!!

not just a purtty face ya know...

though i think that the misrepresenation then is as true as it ever was no?

the concept that any move away from the status quo will result in falling standards not raised ones, it's all about playing the fear card... you know not things could be better but thing's could be worse ... we even use that very phrase to ofset a bad situation...

 

[Taxamo Welf]

erm the clowns have been around for at least 5 years that i can remeber ... the sythn circ which we were last at had a film by them playing as dwen tried to tell me about his essay

CIRCA are commonly called 'the clowns', and it is them i refer too. 'Clowning up' on demo's has been around for about 5 years... no more like 4. What demo's were you thinking of that had clowns in 2000? the statement by blair was in 2001 after gothenburg (thank you natasha walter).

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

i was thinking of mark thomas actions with clowns in the late ninties the clowns on the poll tax CJB/CJA demos reclaim the street's clowns etc it's been a pretty fixed idea for some time