An Inconvenient Truth

[Kid_Eternity]

Opens properly on the 22nd, only in major big cities this early. Where are you based?

North London, nearest cinema is the Holloway Odeon.

 

[Wookey]

What kind of timeframe are we talking about and what kind of damage can we expect?

From what I understand, we have at best estimates about a decade to reduce carbon emissions to pre-1970 levels (which is when the measurements started to go off the graph).

Good news - we have the knowledge and technology to do this, including end-use energy saving (lightbulbs, hybrid cars etc) and new energy manufacture technologies (especially in China, where 5 new coal powered stations are opening every week).

Bad news - if we don't do this, the melting in the northern and southern hemispheres will undoubtedly accelerate, pumping billions of gallons of freshwater into the seas and disrupting the weather systems which have been in place since the last ice age (already we're seeing evidence of this in southern hemisphere hurricanes, and heat waves etc).

If this melt continues (occurs is the wrong word, it's already occuring...) unabaited, then we will witness a rise in sea levels which will put central Manhattan underwater, as well as 70million Chinese around Shanghai, 10million Indians, almost all of Bangladesh. The list goes on and on, and is terrifying. Hundreds of millions of displaced environmental refugees.

Oh, and we'll lose East Anglia.

Mean temperatures will rise, disease and pestilence will take hold, crop and human-eating insects will move above the mosquito line and start to spread more illness, marine life will start to fail, indiginous animal populations will die, rodents will increase, the economy will fail in a single generation and civilisation will come to a grinding halt.

I think that's a fair summation. He really wasn't kidding.

There's more here....http://www.climatecrisis.net/

 

[Wookey]

North London, nearest cinema is the Holloway Odeon.

Well, it opened in abouut 8 or 9 Odeons across London, so you're a bus ride away from being among the first to see it in the country!

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Well, it opened in abouut 8 or 9 Odeons across London, so you're a bus ride away from being among the first to see it in the country!

Very cool, I'm actually in walking distance of the Holloway Odeon too.

 

[King Mob]

On a less cynical note, maybe a few petrolheads in the US might listen up and change their lifestyles, so it can't be a bad thing

It changed Big Arnie's point of view.

 

[Wookey]

It changed Big Arnie's point of view.

imo, if you watch this film and don't take action, you should be bloody sectioned!

The time for debate is gone now, that's the big message. It's not whether we should act, but can we act quickly enough.

I'm thinking up a poll to see where Urbanites stand on recycling, energy efficiency, etc. It would be interesting to see who's acted, and of those who haven't, why the hell not.

 

[kyser_soze]

Was it this film that turned Arnie into the Econator? Fucking hell.

 

[Wookey]

Was it this film that turned Arnie into the Econator? Fucking hell.

Yes, that's what Arnie said.

He'll lose most of the San Francisco Bay area if we don't stop the melt. His state is in the heart of floodsville.

 

[kyser_soze]

I'm thinking that the Bay Area of SF weren't exactly his strongest core voter group, but point taken.

 

[beeboo]

There's a cartoon part way through the film, which shows a frog plunging into a pan of hot water, and leaping back out again. 'See,' says Gore,' a frog going from cold to the shock of the hot will react. But put a frog in a cold pan, and heat the pan, and the frog will stay in the increasingly warm water until.... until....

Until he dies, you think...

'Until the frog is rescued...!' he laughs, as the audience laugh with him. 'It's important that you rescue the frog,' he says earnestly.

I'm sure it's not like that at all, but reading this I can't help but think of Troy McClure.

 

[Crispy]

Really want to see this.

I already:
Recycle as much as possible
Cycle as much as possible (hoho!)
Use energy bulbs
Turn things off at the pkug
Get electricity from a renewables company (can't do anything about the actual flat as it's not mine)
Generally don't waste things.

Fly too much

But I'm not normal - my parents who agree it's bad and we should do something:

Recycle glass
Drive everywhere
Don't do a damn thing about electricity generation even though they live on top of a hill ina south facing house - couldn't be more perfect for wind or solar.

Fly topo much

And they're fucking loaded, by comparison. I only hope they (and everyone else like them) see this film....

 

[kyser_soze]

Tell yr folks to go see it mebbe? Buy them tickets as an early anniversary present?

BTW which leccy supplier do you use? Wry and I have a new place to move and I'd like to choose a relatively benign supplier...

 

[Crispy]

Tell yr folks to go see it mebbe? Buy them tickets as an early anniversary present?

BTW which leccy supplier do you use? Wry and I have a new place to move and I'd like to choose a relatively benign supplier...

Haven't actually signed on the line yet as we don't know which meter is ours (landlord hasn't got back to us) but they're called Ecotricity. They have two service plans - New Energy and Old Energy. New gets you half your power from renewables - the rest is conventional and the difference is invested into new renewables. Old is entirely from existing renewables.

It costs about £70 more p/a (270 instead of 200, according to the http://www.uswitch.com/ website)

 

[TeeJay]

Some people out there doubt if not outright deny there is such thing as global warming or man-made climate change. It does not help that the Republican Party and the neocon movement and press make such claims.

I don't think this movie will convert that many people (a lot of those who deny climate change are likely to be ultra-right wing Republicans who hate Gore's guts and dismiss it all as 'liberal propaganda') but it has to be a good thing that it's out and will raise awareness amongst some of the doubters at least.

I don't like Republicans at all, but your claim is not actually true:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/02/climatechange.html

Bush doesn't actually deny that climate change is occuring, or that it is at least partly cuased by mankind, but his proposed 'answer' to this is different from most environmentalists.

 

[nuffsaid]

Unfortunately I don't think it will make a blind bit of difference how anyone in the UK uses energy or recycles when you've got the economies of China and India going full tilt at development to become as energy hungry as the west is already.

Even if we stopped every car and turned all power stations off tomorrow I think we'd still be buggered by the impact of China and other developing countries. If it was just the west, then maybe there'd be a chance to put things in reverse but I think we're buggered, and its damage limitation from here on....which bodes pretty badly for future generations

 

[fishfingerer]

Why do you dismiss it as 'this shit'?

I'll reserve judgment until I see the fillum but I suspect it reeks of another dose of useless liberal guilt that's useful for illustrating the problem but steadfastly opposed to any action that might actually solve or go some way to alleviating it, because to do so inevitably means conflict, and the likes of Gore have too much to lose.

 

[Wookey]

I'll reserve judgment until I see the fillum but I suspect it reeks of another dose of useless liberal guilt that's useful for illustrating the problem but steadfastly opposed to any action that might actually solve or go some way to alleviating it, because to do so inevitably means conflict, and the likes of Gore have too much to lose.

I see. The message of the film was 'Vote for green policies. Agitate for green policies. If there are no green politicians, stand for green issues yourself. Now is the time. Shut up, and put up. The masters and powers-that-be will not deliver us - unless we make them. So let us make them. In the meantime, do everything you can to minimise the damage you inflict.'

Which seemed quite reasonable to me (but then, I am a sick little optimist).

My other half though, said: 'People will never take the harder option of change unless they're forced to. We need to make them change; ban short-haul flights, tackle big business and their energy waste, tax rubbish that isn't recycled, stop this incessant credo of Freedom of Choice; fuck Freedom of Choice, it's Freedom of Choice that got us here. We don't have years and years to wait for people to wake the fuck up, they must be woken up with force, and only government can do that. There are no saviours on the scene now, and by the time we put them there it will be TOO LATE.'

'But,' says I,' what we learned from that film is that the democratic process has not thus far heard that call, and won't let go of it's thrall to big business and profit-lead social change anyway - even if Gore says that a response to the climate crisis will in fact create jobs and wealth, because it's a step-forward for us, that doesn't mean the world (including the developing world which has the greatest population surge) will see it that way. That is pie-in-the-sky optimism. We're frogs in a warming pan, not frogs in shock - and Katrina et al will not be enough of a shock, will they?'

'No,' he says. 'Which is why we're all, essentially, doomed.'

Which is why I posted this thread, you see.

 

[Wookey]

Gore says in the film - 'it's weird how so many people went from denying there was a problem, to despair over ever solving the problem - without ever going through a stage of getting something done....'

And I thought: What about those of us who knew there was a problem, tried to get something done, failed, and now despair that we have enough time to do what you're asking us.'

I imagine hsi reply would be something along the lines of, we must do what little we can, because the option of inaction is indefensible - and the question is not political, but moral. If we are to look our kids in the face when they ask 'Why didn't you do something' we must do something in order to have an answer for them.

I had a deep desire last night to organise a long-haul round the world trip to take one long, last look at what we're about to destroy. Then find a nice spot from which to watch the fireworks....

 

[snouty warthog]

Bad news - if we don't do this, the melting in the northern and southern hemispheres will undoubtedly accelerate, pumping billions of gallons of freshwater into the seas and disrupting the weather systems which have been in place since the last ice age (already we're seeing evidence of this in southern hemisphere hurricanes, and heat waves etc).

what bothers me, is that scientists are predicting changes according to the data that they have in hand- ignoring the fact the climate change is *exponential*... it will accelerate according to the damage already done...

thanks for great film review, BTW

 

[fishfingerer]

I see. The message of the film was 'Vote for green policies. Agitate for green policies. If there are no green politicians, stand for green issues yourself. Now is the time. Shut up, and put up. The masters and powers-that-be will not deliver us - unless we make them. So let us make them. In the meantime, do everything you can to minimise the damage you inflict.'

Which seemed quite reasonable to me (but then, I am a sick little optimist).

My other half though, said: 'People will never take the harder option of change unless they're forced to. We need to make them change; ban short-haul flights, tackle big business and their energy waste, tax rubbish that isn't recycled, stop this incessant credo of Freedom of Choice; fuck Freedom of Choice, it's Freedom of Choice that got us here. We don't have years and years to wait for people to wake the fuck up, they must be woken up with force, and only government can do that. There are no saviours on the scene now, and by the time we put them there it will be TOO LATE.'

'But,' says I,' what we learned from that film is that the democratic process has not thus far heard that call, and won't let go of it's thrall to big business and profit-lead social change anyway - even if Gore says that a response to the climate crisis will in fact create jobs and wealth, because it's a step-forward for us, that doesn't mean the world (including the developing world which has the greatest population surge) will see it that way. That is pie-in-the-sky optimism. We're frogs in a warming pan, not frogs in shock - and Katrina et al will not be enough of a shock, will they?'

'No,' he says. 'Which is why we're all, essentially, doomed.'

Which is why I posted this thread, you see.

I don't agree that we're doomed. I expect the survival instinct and the innate human desire for justice to kick in at some stage and come into full on conflict with power and privilege, and that means bloodshed. "We" will win, but there will be a substantial cost. I once asked my ex why she wasn't interested in supporting stuff like demos in Seattle and Genoa as she'd been an active anarchist type since the early 90's (giving AIDS awareness talks and free literacy lessons and whatnot) and she said the only thing that can fix capitalism is war. And well, that makes sense to me now.

However the film is probably good for children. It looks like it's saying the same stuff I was taught in geography class 20 years ago.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

If you have - do you think it - or indeed anything - can save us now?

Yes. We have made necessary changes in the past, and can do it again.

You're old enough to remember CFCs and their imminent danger to the ozone layer.

 

[fogbat]

Yes. We have made necessary changes in the past, and can do it again.

You're old enough to remember CFCs and their imminent danger to the ozone layer.

CFCs didn't really drive pretty much all industry and our lifestyles, though, did they?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

CFCs didn't really drive pretty much all industry and our lifestyles, though, did they?

No, but at the time it was thought that they were so omnipresent as to be almost irreplaceable at anything but prohibitive cost.

 

[fogbat]

No, but at the time it was thought that they were so omnipresent as to be almost irreplaceable at anything but prohibitive cost.

Oh, I see. Sorry, I think I missed the point you were making with your analogy the first time around

I still doubt we could switch to non-polluting power sources with anything near the same ease. The sheer ubiquity of C02 producing technology in our lives is several times greater than that of CFCs / replacement propellants and coolants.

Switching to non-CFC products hardly made an impact on our everyday lives, but the steps we need to take to have any impact on climate change would represent a substantial lifestyle change for the majority of people (myself included).

 

[spacemonkey]

For every new Hybrid Car - there's 10,000 knackered old Ford vans in Bangkok, Shanghai, Delhi etc pumping out thick black smoke all day..and will do so for the next 20 years.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Oh, I see. Sorry, I think I missed the point you were making with your analogy the first time around

I still doubt we could switch to non-polluting power sources with anything near the same ease. The sheer ubiquity of C02 producing technology in our lives is several times greater than that of CFCs / replacement propellants and coolants.

Switching to non-CFC products hardly made an impact on our everyday lives, but the steps we need to take to have any impact on climate change would represent a substantial lifestyle change for the majority of people (myself included).

Cars today produce something like 1% of the emissions produced by cars in the late seventies and early eighties. That change was carried out without major impact on our lives.

 

[Crispy]

"emissions" - nice floaty word that
I suspect that what you say is true about SO2, NO, particulates and other nasties - there was vociferous and effective campaigning against these pollutants, which were shown to cause real damage to health and the environment. However, CO2 has always come out of cars in fat lumps and continues to do so. A 70'S us car might have got 10mpg. A modern one might get 20. That's a 50% drop. Care to guess how much car ownership has risen in the same time?

CFC's - Acid rain - Leaded petrol. All these problems were solvable by making small changes to the way we live - small to the point of insignificance. Reducing CO2 emissions will require change larger by an order of magnitude, or two. You can't carry on using your car the same way, or electricity the same way and expect technology to plug the gap. Real, massive change is required in the short to medium term.

 

[ska invita]

...useful for illustrating the problem but steadfastly opposed to any action that might actually solve or go some way to alleviating it...

Certainly its going to take forceful global leadership - UN style, with a heavy backing from the US to solve - this will have to hurt/cost big business. Either that or a violent smash the state uprising - the infastructure is just too big for tinkering.

the day politicians vote against business will be the beginning of a new world.

They couldnt even impliment Kyoto which was a fart aginst the wind anyway - if they cant even make an irrelevant gesture, what chance of real action?

Im afraid its just going to have to happen and we're going to have to pay the price as a species - fuck it - you want revolution? this will be a revolution... get prepared for the window of opportunity.

There was a thing in the paper about how cows are more polluting than cars in Britian yesterday... if the world went vegi and hippy tommorow we have a chance - oh well, then we're fucked!

P>S> Film is very available to download on P2P networks - i recommend this client (shareaza lite):
http://www.download3000.com/download_7834.html

 

[jiggajagga]

I think the most frightning part of the movie was the ammount of mass migration that will be created if the already hot equatorial regions become even hotter and thus virtually unlivable.

We are moaning here in the UK about half a million immigrants. Imagine what life will be like when 100s of millions migrate mainly north from the equatorial regions (simply because there is more land in the northern hemishpere than the southern)?
The possibility of social cohesion breakdown is tremendous.

If only 10% of the movie is fact it is still terrifying for my children and grandchildren.
If you are a selfish twat and think only of yourself then you have nothing to worry about.....unless you are say a teenager perhaps!

 

[jæd]

P>S> Film is very available to download on P2P networks - i recommend this client (shareaza lite):
http://www.download3000.com/download_7834.html

On its way down at the moment... I don't doubt global warming is a huge, man made problem. But my take is that while it will have its effects humanity will be able to suruve as it always does. And if doesn't...? Well, at least the cockroaches will have a nice summer of weather as the Earth adjusts...!

Btw, anyone see the Metro frontpage this morning...? "Global Warming Nearly as Dangerous as Ectasy"...