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An example of why Americans likes guns

ummm, no customer fired either....

from the Snopes link:

"the only ones involved in the exchange of lead were Zaback, Lally, and Morris."

and how exactly was it presented to you? urban myth?
 
Since school shootings come up....

Columbine Victim Richard Castaldo's Father Gives Congressional Testimony

http://www.house.gov/judiciary/cast0406.htm
04/06/00 Committee on the Judiciary - Castaldo Statement

Mr.Chairman and Members of the Committee,

I thank you for the opportunity to come before you and speak about my support of H.R. 4051, "Project Exile: The Safe Streets and Neighborhoods Act of 2000."

On April 20th of last year, my son Richard was having lunch with a classmate, Rachel Scott, outside the Library of Columbine high school. Richard was shot eight times and is now paralyzed from the chest down. Rachel was not so lucky; she died while lying next to my son.

Rachel's father testified in this very room shortly after the incident. Like me, he does not blame the guns. I believe that there are a number of factors and cultural influences that affect young people today. Mr. Scott spoke of the loss of faith and the denigration of God in some circles of modern America. Many of us speak about the influences of the media, music and movies on our teenagers. Many of our political leaders ignore the effect that these influences have on young people and continue to blame this behavior, like Columbine, solely on guns. This, in my opinion, is clearly wrong. It is the failure to identify and address the root cause of this behavior that I find dishonest. Our President has stood up and proclaimed, "If only congress would pass my gun legislation, our children would be safe." I find this personally offensive. That the President of the United States can blame the lack of gun laws, of which there are already 20,000, for a tragedy like Columbine, is ludicrous.

Shortly after the Columbine shooting, my son Richard, while in intensive care, asked me how many laws were broken. I was told by the district attorney that there were at least seventeen federal laws broken. I could not even count the vast number of state laws that applied. Richard had been asked, by members of the media and some of our elected officials, about his position regarding "gun control." His response showed that the wisdom of youth frequently exceeds our own. "What good would a few more laws do?" he asked. "What causes kids to do something like this?"


I'm not C&Ping the whole post, but there was one other short statement:

It is far easier to blame it on guns. It makes it simple to sell on TV.

And there are other examples like the one which started this thread, like:

Joel Myrick is a hero. In 1997 this Mississippi high school principal prevented a psychotic teenager from killing students at Pearl Junior High, potentially saving numerous lives and immeasurable grief.

But according to Federal law, Principal Joel Myrick is a criminal.

You see, in order to stop the deranged teen (who had opened fire at a high school) from leaving the high school to continue his killing spree at the junior high, Myrick retrieved a handgun from his truck, loaded it, and held it on the youth until authorities could arrive. "I've always kept a gun in the truck just in case something like this ever happened," Myrick said.

Myrick clearly saved lives. He also clearly violated the Federal Gun Free School Zones Act (18 US Code sect. 922(q)(1)(A)), which specifies, "It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm... at a place that the individual knows... is a school zone."

Of course, the Federal law doesn't seem to have held much sway over criminals. Perhaps Luke Woodham, the murderer in Mississippi, and Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, the Columbine murderers, simply forgot to review the relevant Federal statutes before they went on their killing sprees.


And while I know the anti-gun people hate statistics I'll still point out that I am 20 times more likely to be killed by a doctor or medical personel than a "gun nut" in the US. [That's preventable deaths, not just the number of people dieing in hospitals. American Journal of Medicine report - Not Gun Lovers of America.]
:p
 
This sounds like the same babble Charlton Heston came out with about how all the students at Columbine should have had guns.
 
Rentonite said:
The Way this was presented to Me it was as a fresh incident
For future reference it might pay to be a little bit suspect the next time you read some headline from a Gun Nut website Rentadyke....but then again you would probably believe anything thats put in front of you anyway.... :rolleyes:

...oh good..Ohio is back to entertain and enlighten us.

Who said Pee has gone away? ;)
 
Johnny Canuck2 said:
twenty-nine per cent of Canadian homes possess an estimated total of nine million firearms. Other authorities insist that even this figure is too low, and that there is at least twenty million firearms in Canada. The UN reported that Canada ranks third among the developed western countries (behind the United States and Norway) in the civilian ownership of firearms.

There is an average of three firearms in every gun-owning Canadian household. The majority of gun-owning households in Canada own rifles and/or shotguns; on a per capita basis, Canadians own nearly as many rifles as Americans.

http://www.cdnshootingsports.org/tenmyths.html

I think there's a distinction to be made: we likely own as many rifles, but not handguns.
looks like i stand corrected, fair enough.

Frats Rmp3

ps. I still think there is mileage in comparing the gun ownership and gun homocide rates US/CAN, to dispel the arguement that gun ownership is the sole determining factor of homocide rates,,,, US etc.
 
Yossarian said:
This sounds like the same babble Charlton Heston came out with about how all the students at Columbine should have had guns.
No, he's repeating the arguement michael moore made in the movie where moore exposed heston for the gun toting neanderthal he is.

Frats Rmp3

PS. Sorry for my disrespect of neanderthals.
 
Whhhhell All righty then
I went to my local neighborhood Gun shop and asked about this story and The details that where given to me are what I passed on to the forum
according to the elderly gentlemen that I talked to that was the account that was making the rounds At the time it happend.

As Skewed and down right inaccurate as the news media has proven to be,
I like personal accounts better than news stuff but I agree that they may Both Be incorrect.

I Wonder,....................
If Every story that gets posted here gets as much negative scrutiny, Mmmm
:rolleyes:
 
Armed Idiots can not cow or frighten or Rob armed people, They get SHOT and Killed
Its Immediate Justice
I like That
The rest of the world should be like that.
there would be a lot less idiots
and a lot more mannors.
(Most crimes are just exagurated Bad Mannors)
It would become important to be conciderate of everyone else, and those that are inconciderate
would not be around long.

I know that scares some in this crowd....................... :)
 
With gun laws that state a hunter is allowed armour piercing bullets (:eek: :rolleyes: ), I think a review of legislation may be in order.
 
wtf ?

first peebs then this guy. does owning guns do something to your ability to grasp english and spelling ?

"hands up motherstickers, this is a fuck up"
 
Armorpiercing bullets are All ready illegal, Uh , Er , if you didnt know...

ya might concider just a little research prior to complaint..........

:)
 
What I still don't understand is how all this relates to the topic "Why Americans likes guns." Come to think of it, I'm not even sure what that means, is it supposed to illustrate why ONE American (eg Rentonite) likes guns? Or why Americans (presumably ALL Americans) like guns? And what has either of these spurious claims to do with a 15-year-old gun-nut joke?
 
Rentonite said:
Armorpiercing bullets are All ready illegal, Uh , Er , if you didnt know...

ya might concider just a little research prior to complaint..........:)
Of all the threads, in all the forums, your pedantry picks this one :rolleyes:
 
Jangla said:
With gun laws that state a hunter is allowed armour piercing bullets (:eek: :rolleyes: ), I think a review of legislation may be in order.


Depends on the type of animal being hunted. In Britain some ammmunition legally required for hunting deer is banned for use by the armed services by the Geneva Convention, but the police can use it.
 
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest."
Gandhi, An Autobiography.

N.B.: This quote refers to the British disarmament of the Indian Army.

Because of the disturbances on April 10 in Amristar, Gen. R.E.H. Dyer was sent with troops from Jullundur to restore order, and, though no further disturbances occurred in Amritsar until April 13, Dyer marched 50 armed soldiers into the Jallianwallah Bagh (Garden) that afternoon and ordered them to open fire on a protest meeting attended by some 10,000 unarmed men, women, and children without issuing a word of warning. It was a Sunday, and many neighboring peasants had come to Amritsar to celebrate a Hindu festival, gathering in the Bagh, which was a place for holding cattle fair and other festivities. Dyer kept his troops firing for about ten minutes, until they had shot 1650 rounds of ammunition into the terror-stricken crowd, which had no way of escaping the Bagh, since the soldiers spanned the only exit. About 400 civilians were killed and some 1200 wounded. They were left without medical attention by Dyer, who hastily removed his troops to the camp. Sir Michael O'Dwyer fully approved of and supported the Jallianwallah Bagh massacre, and on April 15, 1919, issued a martial law decree for the entire Punjab:

'The least amount of firing which would produce the necessary moral and widespread effect it was my duty to produce . . . from a military point of view, not only on those who were present, but more specially throughout the Punjab.'

Dyer was relieved of his command, but he returned to England as a hero to many British admirers, who presented him with a collected purse of thousands of pounds and a jewelled sword inscribed "Saviour of the Punjab."


You see Rentonite, the British abhorence of personal firearms comes from a historical preference for a.) letting their paid hitmen (ie. British troops) do the killing for them and b.) keeping their hitmen out of personal danger by insuring that the people they're murdering can't shoot back. {They learned this from the American Revolution where armed civilians caused them no end of grief.}

Churchill demonstrated the same stiff moral fiber by ordering the destruction of Dresden (a civilian target) during WWII.

Of course that was in the past. Todays enlightened British policies would never allow them to be involved against a country that hadn't attacked them first. You know, like Iraq.

But they're embroiled in Iraq, where Sadam's policy of allowing citizens to own guns is causing them (and the US) grief.

Surely you see their point? :D

P.S. I've noticed that Americans "frontier past" and "cowboy legacy" is occasionally cited as the reason we "love" guns. I guess we now know why you hate them. :p
 
Rentonite said:
Whhhhell All righty then
I went to my local neighborhood Gun shop and asked about this story and The details that where given to me are what I passed on to the forum
according to the elderly gentlemen that I talked to that was the account that was making the rounds At the time it happend.

As Skewed and down right inaccurate as the news media has proven to be,
I like personal accounts better than news stuff but I agree that they may Both Be incorrect.

I Wonder,....................
If Every story that gets posted here gets as much negative scrutiny, Mmmm
:rolleyes:

Well peeps I’d say this is real progress.

At least our Trigger is looking further a field than Fox news for his stories now.
I hear it was the baker who told him about the imminent world takeover by the Muslim terrorist shit-heads and the guy who runs the local Saloon told him about the homey culture theory which suggests that a significant number of America’s black and ethnic minority groups live in poverty because they are "lazy and want reparation for slavery".

His theories on communism and global economics are straight from the fishmonger’s wife so take head my fellow urbanites, as this nut job must be in possession of some real truth.

I hear the radio operator in the local CABish Firm is receiving classified material across the airwaves which confirms Renty’s beliefs that future world conflicts will be fought by renegade chauffeurs tooled up with laser weaponry and flying machines.

Taxi_Test.jpg


Keep it coming travis you're killing me :D
 
OhioCitizen said:
Because of the disturbances on April 10 in Amristar, Gen. R.E.H. Dyer was sent with troops from Jullundur to restore order, and, though no further disturbances occurred in Amritsar until April 13, Dyer marched 50 armed soldiers into the Jallianwallah Bagh (Garden) that afternoon and ordered them to open fire on a protest meeting attended by some 10,000 unarmed men, women, and children without issuing a word of warning. It was a Sunday, and many neighboring peasants had come to Amritsar to celebrate a Hindu festival, gathering in the Bagh, which was a place for holding cattle fair and other festivities. Dyer kept his troops firing for about ten minutes, until they had shot 1650 rounds of ammunition into the terror-stricken crowd, which had no way of escaping the Bagh, since the soldiers spanned the only exit. About 400 civilians were killed and some 1200 wounded. They were left without medical attention by Dyer, who hastily removed his troops to the camp. Sir Michael O'Dwyer fully approved of and supported the Jallianwallah Bagh massacre, and on April 15, 1919, issued a martial law decree for the entire Punjab:

'The least amount of firing which would produce the necessary moral and widespread effect it was my duty to produce . . . from a military point of view, not only on those who were present, but more specially throughout the Punjab.'

Dyer was relieved of his command, but he returned to England as a hero to many British admirers, who presented him with a collected purse of thousands of pounds and a jewelled sword inscribed "Saviour of the Punjab."


You see Rentonite, the British abhorence of personal firearms comes from a historical preference for a.) letting their paid hitmen (ie. British troops) do the killing for them and b.) keeping their hitmen out of personal danger by insuring that the people they're murdering can't shoot back. {They learned this from the American Revolution where armed civilians caused them no end of grief.}

Churchill demonstrated the same stiff moral fiber by ordering the destruction of Dresden (a civilian target) during WWII.

Of course that was in the past. Todays enlightened British policies would never allow them to be involved against a country that hadn't attacked them first. You know, like Iraq.

But they're embroiled in Iraq, where Sadam's policy of allowing citizens to own guns is causing them (and the US) grief.

Surely you see their point? :D

P.S. I've noticed that Americans "frontier past" and "cowboy legacy" is occasionally cited as the reason we "love" guns. I guess we now know why you hate them. :p
I'm a socialist, and so you might be surprised to hear that they agree with a lot of what you have said. [ especially about the British] you might be also surprised to hear that the political Socialist party I'm in has been against various extensions of gun controls. I guess like me, you are inspired by the way the Black Panthers put similar arguments to those you have?

[re your ps.]
However, I don't think it has so much to do with America's violent past that gun homicides are higher in America than anywhere else, I think it has far more to do with the groser social and economic contradictions that exist in your society, and the way the politicians and the media use fear to control the population.

Frats Rmp3
 
Rentonite said:
Armorpiercing bullets are All ready illegal, Uh , Er , if you didnt know...

ya might concider just a little research prior to complaint..........

:)
Current law bans certain armor-piercing ammunition for handguns. It establishes a "content based" standard: it covers ammunition that is (1) constructed from tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium, or (2) larger than .22 caliber with a jacket that weighs no more than 25 percent of the total weight of the bullet.

However, there are no restrictions on ammunition that may be manufactured from other materials but can still penetrate body armor. Even more important, there are no restrictions on armor-piercing ammunition used in rifles and assault weapons.
 
That historical analysis also conveniently leaves out the fact that there were *no* prohibitions on gun ownership before 1920 and it wasn't illegal to carry a gun for your own protection until 1953.

It's called 'progress' and you'll understand one day - your country was also a few decades late in outlawing slavery and executing retarded children but you caught up eventually.
 
the arguement has slewed strangely off into Britiains imperial heritage. There is no doubt that many,many hienous things were done by the British govt in the British Empire. The use of guns in a war situation is hadly comparable to the story in the original post on this thread.

One thing I find odd is that many in the US repeat the matra "gins dont kill people, people do". Yet you never hear the same people saying, "drugs don't kill you, people do". because its the same arguement. However, the gun nut is usually firmly anti-drugs. Go figure.
 
When, after independence, the Americans conquered everything west of the Appalachians in a process that can only be described as genocidal colonisation of the worst kind, did they allow the few surviving Native Americans to own guns?
 
ResistanceMP3 said:
This IS rubbish. There are places with bigger pops, with less incidents. There are places with higher density gun ownership than the US, that have a lower density of such gun incidents.

You think the us is all the same?

Thats bizzare
 
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