an electromagnetic pulse attack on the usa could kill 90% of americans

[yield]

Whoa... weird.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304851104579359141941621778

DaveCinzano started a thread on it a few months ago. Over a year on and still no idea who was responsible?

Silicon Valley substation attack: “This wasn't Billy-Bob & Joe after a few brewskis”

 

[Quartz]

We aren't, because we have the Queen.

I know you meant this as a joke, but it's actually correct. If America were to suffer a decapitation strike, with all the political leadership killed, then there might well be significant political instability, but if Britain were to suffer one then Brenda would step in. Or her successor if she were to die in the attack, and that successor is publicly listed to the thousandth person. So there would be no confusion.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I know you meant this as a joke, but it's actually correct. If America were to suffer a decapitation strike, with all the political leadership killed, then there might well be significant political instability, but if Britain were to suffer one then Brenda would step in. Or her successor if she were to die in the attack, and that successor is publicly listed to the thousandth person. So there would be no confusion.

At some point, though, you'd get to some 18 month old kid.

 

[DotCommunist]

At some point, though, you'd get to some 18 month old kid.

Regents

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

I know you meant this as a joke, but it's actually correct. If America were to suffer a decapitation strike, with all the political leadership killed, then there might well be significant political instability, but if Britain were to suffer one then Brenda would step in. Or her successor if she were to die in the attack, and that successor is publicly listed to the thousandth person. So there would be no confusion.

The line of succession is deeper in the US than many realize. Its highly unlikely that everyone in the line of succession were to be killed at once even if you nuked Washington. And as each President stepped up he/she would appoint new people in the list of succession. There might be some argument over succession, but if the US were attacked (ex: 9/11), you'd probably see a diminishing of dissent in favor of stability.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_line_of_succession

 

[Idris2002]

The line of succession is deeper in the US than many realize. Its highly unlikely that everyone in the line of succession were to be killed at once even if you nuked Washington. And as each President stepped up he/she would appoint new people in the list of succession. There might be some argument over succession, but if the US were attacked (ex: 9/11), you'd probably see a diminishing of dissent in favor of stability.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_line_of_succession

Aye, but didn't Al Haig try to squeeze out George HW Bush when Reagan was shot?

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Aye, but didn't Al Haig try to squeeze out George HW Bush when Reagan was shot?

I might be wrong, but I think that was some odd rule they have for when a President goes under anesthesia. Bush was out of the country and someone had to take possession of "the football" while the President was in surgery. It was a temporary thing. I'm not saying it wasn't him stepping in where he wasn't supposed to be, but that was the cover story.

 

[Idris2002]

I might be wrong, but I think that was some odd rule they have for when a President goes under anesthesia. Bush was out of the country and someone had to take possession of "the football" while the President was in surgery. It was a temporary thing. I'm not saying it wasn't him stepping in where he wasn't supposed to be, but that was the cover story.

Yeah, that's what they want you to think. . .

 

[ska invita]

apparently.

http://www.hstoday.us/single-articl...ss-told/1b5e33a26545ac5ebf9398f00064dc0a.html

ive heard this before, in relation to solar storms, which if IIRC are cyclical and a possibly dangerous new cycle isnt that far away is it? what are the chances of another big solar storm hitting?

 

[Crispy]

ive heard this before, in relation to solar storms, which if IIRC are cyclical and a possibly dangerous new cycle isnt that far away is it? what are the chances of another big solar storm hitting?

Turns out we really dodged a bullet a couple of years ago

 

[ska invita]

I presume there isnt much earth people could do to protect against this....even if we could i doubt anyone would have the long-termism to do so

 

[2hats]

I presume there isnt much earth people could do to protect against this....even if we could i doubt anyone would have the long-termism to do so

For a Carrington class event or larger? Not a lot. Go back to a pre-industrial lifestyle, live in a yurt close to a source of running clean water and grow all your own food? Perhaps stockpile a lot of books? At least ground all aircraft before they ground themselves then sit back and enjoy the lights in the sky.

 

[ska invita]

Cant we fly WIll Smith and the US president straight into it or something? If only Sun Ra was still alive...

 

[Quartz]

Would it only affect half the world, or would the Earth's magnetic field ensure we were all fucked?

 

[2hats]

Would it only affect half the world, or would the Earth's magnetic field ensure we were all fucked?

Global effects. Direct risk on the ground generally increases with geomagnetic latitude (so North America is to some degree 'more' vulnerable than an equivalent geographical latitude in say Asia). But given a sufficiently strong event/series of events everyone would be affected. Additionally all space based infrastructure (and thus everything that depends on it, which is a hell of a lot in a modern society) would get cooked.

 

[quiquaquo]

Apart from knocking out satellites surely some services are "hardened" against such an event. Faraday cages and all that?

 

[Quartz]

Additionally all space based infrastructure (and thus everything that depends on it, which is a hell of a lot in a modern society) would get cooked.

How much is there that doesn't have a terrestrial backup? GPS, orbital imagery, and spy satellites, but what else? Telecoms can use the terrestrial fibre links.

 

[2hats]

Apart from knocking out satellites surely some services are "hardened" against such an event. Faraday cages and all that?

You propose to spin a Faraday cage around millions of km of power distribution cables? All pumps and control hardware in water treatment and distribution infrastructure? Some infrastructure (power distribution at higher latitudes) is hardened to some degree and designed to mitigate effects but only to a point. A suitably strong event, which will occur one day, will overwhelm.

 

[2hats]

Telecoms can use the terrestrial fibre links.

Not when there is no power and the electronics in the repeaters have been fried.

 

[Quartz]

Given sufficient warning - and IIRC we will have a day or so - could we survive by shutting everything - and I mean everything - down and disconnecting everything? Sure people would die, but would that be a lesser evil?

 

[quiquaquo]

What about vehicles with old style (points) electrics, will they work? Should we all be be building our own fortified "doomsteads"?

 

[2hats]

Given sufficient warning - and IIRC we will have a day or so - could we survive by shutting everything - and I mean everything - down and disconnecting everything? Sure people would die, but would that be a lesser evil?

The lead warning time can be as short as 17 hours (which is the most likely case in such a large event). Shutting everything off isn't going to protect it at all. The conductors make fantastic little antennae. Essentially the longer the cable the greater the potential difference end to end.

What about vehicles with old style (points) electrics, will they work? Should we all be be building our own fortified "doomsteads"?

It all depends on the size of the event. Big enough and all supporting infrastructure is going to get damaged so forget obsessing about the precious metal boxes on wheels and think more chickens and home grown spuds.

 

[two sheds]

Or just over 8 minutes if it's the sun. If we hear in time I for one will be scrabbling round disconnecting everything that disconnects, filling up pans with water, starting to eat the fridge contents, finding the sieve to put on my head as makeshift faraday cage (this is where the CT'ers will have a tinfoil hat start on us).

No time to take out money from the bank or charge up batteries though.

 

[2hats]

Or just over 8 minutes if it's the sun.

No. An exceptional CME event will have a peak velocity measured in 1000's of km/s so the advance warning time would be a few hours (less energetic CME = lower velocity = greater warning time). The plasma that is the CME doesn't travel at the speed of light - the damaging EM field arises when it arrives in the vicinity of the Earth and then interacts. That field does not originate at and propagate out from the Sun itself.

 

[stuff_it]

I presume there isnt much earth people could do to protect against this....even if we could i doubt anyone would have the long-termism to do so

Nope, absolutely fuck all, though I do wonder how waterproof the upper levels of this are.... http://www.dezeen.com/2013/06/27/construction-underway-on-cave-hotel-in-abandoned-chinese-quarry/

 

[two sheds]

No. An exceptional CME event will have a peak velocity measured in 1000's of km/s so the advance warning time would be a few hours (less energetic CME = lower velocity = greater warning time). The plasma that is the CME doesn't travel at the speed of light - the damaging EM field arises when it arrives in the vicinity of the Earth and then interacts. That field does not originate at and propagate out from the Sun itself.

A bit of time to top up batteries for giving me an extra hour's use then

 

[TodayIsCaturday]

You'd have to raise a posse to loot Waitrose, but time it so the police comms are out of action before they can do anything.

 

[two sheds]

By the time I got to Waitrose it would be next Wednesday.

 

[quiquaquo]

The lead warning time can be as short as 17 hours (which is the most likely case in such a large event). Shutting everything off isn't going to protect it at all. The conductors make fantastic little antennae. Essentially the longer the cable the greater the potential difference end to end.



It all depends on the size of the event. Big enough and all supporting infrastructure is going to get damaged so forget obsessing about the precious metal boxes on wheels and think more chickens and home grown spuds.

I hate spuds. How about AKs surely Soviet technology can survive the Apocalypse?

 

[Citizen66]

Americans. Even the ones living in Samoa or Hong Kong: 9 out of 10 will drop dead.

Mexican immigrants will of course survive such an occurrence due to their internal overload mechanisms.