Amplifier advice

[killer b]

How will shy floppy-haired indie boys make you mix tapes if you don't have a tape deck? You clearly haven't thought this through.

 

[Rebelda]

How will shy floppy-haired indie boys make you mix tapes if you don't have a tape deck? You clearly haven't thought this through.

Don't worry, I've downgraded to a cheaper amp, freeing up my budget

 

[ViolentPanda]

for a layperson!

I'm looking at amps with an phono input and I think I have my search narrowed down to this and this. I don't really speak the lingo though, so in simple terms what is going to be the difference between them were they in my living room?

Alternative suggestions also welcome

Much as I love Marantz, £300 for an amp that's going to what, mostly be used in the home a couple of hours a day max? A bit much.
Denon make reliable kit that's quite robust, and for a reasonable price, so unless you want the swank factor..

Of course, there's the alternative solution, which is to buy whatever amp you like, and plug an external phono amp into one of the amp's inputs.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Depends whether or not the shelves you already have enable you to get the turntable absolutely level, and provide some insulation from vibration - both of which have a serious deleterious effect on the sound.

I ended up making my own free-standing hi-fi separates unit. Beech frame, padauk feet and 15mm-thick slate shelves. I then used a pair of superballs (those high-bouncing rubber balls) cut in half as vibration dampers under each of the components. It's worked pretty well, and it being fairly weighty helps.

 

[Athos]

I ended up making my own free-standing hi-fi separates unit. Beech frame, padauk feet and 15mm-thick slate shelves. I then used a pair of superballs (those high-bouncing rubber balls) cut in half as vibration dampers under each of the components. It's worked pretty well, and it being fairly weighty helps.

That's oddly similar to my setup. A beech coffee table that my Dad made 40-odd years ago; I've got a sheet of thick acrylic on top of that, which is placed on sorbothane semi-spheres (under two of which I have slivers of slate, becasue the floor isn't perfectly level); the turntable also has sorbothane feet, and stands on the acrylic. The other components are on a level under the main table (originally a place for magazines, I guess), on rubber pads. Also, I'm lucky that it all stands on a concrete floor, so I don't get a lot of non-airborne vibration.

 

[Athos]

Much as I love Marantz, £300 for an amp that's going to what, mostly be used in the home a couple of hours a day max? A bit much.
Denon make reliable kit that's quite robust, and for a reasonable price, so unless you want the swank factor..

Of course, there's the alternative solution, which is to buy whatever amp you like, and plug an external phono amp into one of the amp's inputs.

That's exactly what I do; I run a phono pre-amp into an 'aux' input of my Marantz amp (ignoring the integrated phono input).

 

[SpookyFrank]

Something was vibrating in my living room whenever I turned my system up to full blast. I couldn't figure out what it was so eventually I just knocked the whole house down. But when I turned the system up again, in its specially contructed tent atop the rubble that had once been my home, the vibrating noise continued. After much pondering I realised the vibration was coming from the phone in my pocket. It was my neighbours phoning to tell me to turn the fucking noise down.

 

[Athos]

Something was vibrating in my living room whenever I turned my system up to full blast. I couldn't figure out what it was so eventually I just knocked the whole house down. But when I turned the system up again, in its specially contructed tent atop the rubble that had once been my home, the vibrating noise continued. After much pondering I realised the vibration was coming from the phone in my pocket. It was my neighbours phoning to tell me to turn the fucking noise down.

I know that can't be true. Why would they phone rather than bang on the wall, eh?

 

[savoloysam]

Well firstly go to Richers and demo them both in store.

Although I can personally recommend the PM6005. It's a rather fine piece of kit and very stylish (something you don't often find with amps these days).

You also generally get the quality you pay for.

 

[Athos]

I think I might be happy enough with this one. Loads more affordable than the first Marantz I linked to, and not missing out on any specs I'm hugely fussed about. Seeing as I don't know what "Integrated Circuits" are or do, I've decided I'm not bothered about them Thanks everyone!

Did the amp come? What's it like?

 

[Athos]

And, although the upper range is around 20K, blind tests have shown people can detect an appreciable improvement in performance with super-tweaters that only function an inaudibly high frequencies. I don't know how convinced I am by that, but I've just ordered some, for research - I'll report back.

I'm sure you're not wrong about the ultra high frequencies....

Reporting back, as promised. I've had the super-tweeters for a few weeks, now, so a good few hours of listening. At first, I wasn't sure they made any difference, but, having got used to them, I definitely missed them when they were removed from the system - I picked it every time, even in blind tests. I guess it's a bit like the way a sub shouldn't be noticeable, except when it's not there. But what I find odd is how these make a difference without playing anything you can hear!

 

[Rebelda]

Did the amp come? What's it like?

I'm still dithering mate Thanks for asking though - I will update eventually Probably

 

[8ball]

Any luck in the end?

I'm posting mainly because my trusty old Marantz has given up the ghost after 20 years service (raises glass) and I'm looking for an amp that has a radio and can also stream music in from other deviced <prob got the lingo wrong there>.

And the usual tape and CD connections (yes, tape! ).

And not too expensive obviously.

And with a 'moon on a stick' connection.

 

[hipipol]

Get the denon, get a pair of JBL control ones from richer sounds while your at it
takes up little space and are fairly pokey for tiny teeny weeny speakers

 

[8ball]

Hmmm - what do we reckon - mentil or normil?

http://www.richersounds.com/product/amplifiers-receivers/fatman/mi-tube-2/fatm-mitube-mk2

 

[pesh]

if i was in the market for a valve amp i'd definitely want it to have bluetooth.

 

[8ball]

if i was in the market for a valve amp i'd definitely want it to have bluetooth.

It's almost exactly what I want if it sounds good, but the lack of EQ makes me a little
There are no tone or EQ controls on my CD player.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Reporting back, as promised. I've had the super-tweeters for a few weeks, now, so a good few hours of listening. At first, I wasn't sure they made any difference, but, having got used to them, I definitely missed them when they were removed from the system - I picked it every time, even in blind tests. I guess it's a bit like the way a sub shouldn't be noticeable, except when it's not there. But what I find odd is how these make a difference without playing anything you can hear!

Lol

 

[8ball]

Lol

Are you suggesting issues with the randomization and blinding protocol?

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Are you suggesting issues with the randomization and blinding protocol?

Amongst other things, yeah

 

[ViolentPanda]

Any luck in the end?

I'm posting mainly because my trusty old Marantz has given up the ghost after 20 years service (raises glass)...

My old Rotel (which died about 10 years ago) was first bought by my uncle in 1973, and it got used pretty much every day by him up until he sold it to me in 1988 (along with a Garrard turntable), and by me every day up until 2003, when it finally gave up the ghost. 30 years of solid use!

and I'm looking for an amp that has a radio and can also stream music in from other deviced <prob got the lingo wrong there>.

And the usual tape and CD connections (yes, tape! ).

And not too expensive obviously.

And with a 'moon on a stick' connection.

"Expensive" is relative. I've always gone for "well-engineered" over "bells and whistles", but bluetooth streaming etc is on generation 3 or 4 now, so most mid-range amps should offer it, and given the sheer volume of tape decks out there still, a majority of amps will have a tape input and tape output.
Don't think you'll get much change out of £300, though, even avoiding buying from a high street shop.

 

[Athos]

Lol

Are you suggesting issues with the randomization and blinding protocol?

Amongst other things, yeah

I can see how me sitting there with my back to the Mrs whilst she pulls the plugs in and out is a little unscientific!

And I do still have a healthy level of scepticism about the whole idea of 'super tweaters'. But they were cheap, so were worth the experiment. Plus, I suppose that, if I 'think' it sounds better, then it does. Like the way you can get better as a result of the placebo effect.

The downside is sounding like one of those blokes who rubs special cream into their £10,000 cables.

 

[twentythreedom]

This is my awesome amp, check it out

It's a '73 (?) Pioneer SX-5560. A good friend of mine kindly gave it to me having inherited it from his late dad, who'd owned it from new. It's a cherished possession

It sounds fucking sweet





Needs a good dusting

 

[8ball]

I can see how me sitting there with my back to the Mrs whilst she pulls the plugs in and out is a little unscientific!

And I do still have a healthy level of scepticism about the whole idea of 'super tweaters'. But they were cheap, so were worth the experiment. Plus, I suppose that, if I 'think' it sounds better, then it does. Like the way you can get better as a result of the placebo effect.

The downside is sounding like one of those blokes who rubs special cream into their £10,000 cables.

Hell, if they weren't expensive, who cares. As someone who works in experimental design I can draw you up a protocol so you can be *sure* (well, statistically very confident) that they work.

I'm not personally as sceptical as bees, not being familiar with the things, and I like a good mystery when it comes to the mechanism behind a phenomenon but has anyone tried properly testing them? I know some audiophile types try to talk down the usefulness of blinded tests in a very 'woo' kind of way when they fail them...

The first thing I'd do is take your wife out of the equation - it's highly likely you can read what she's done from her voice.

 

[8ball]

"Expensive" is relative. I've always gone for "well-engineered" over "bells and whistles", but bluetooth streaming etc is on generation 3 or 4 now, so most mid-range amps should offer it, and given the sheer volume of tape decks out there still, a majority of amps will have a tape input and tape output.
Don't think you'll get much change out of £300, though, even avoiding buying from a high street shop.

I'm considering either that little Fatman thing if it sounds good on a little listen or maybe just something cheapish and solid and get a little DLNA box for it. I think you make a good point about something decently made that will last, though.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

I can see how me sitting there with my back to the Mrs whilst she pulls the plugs in and out is a little unscientific!

And I do still have a healthy level of scepticism about the whole idea of 'super tweaters'. But they were cheap, so were worth the experiment. Plus, I suppose that, if I 'think' it sounds better, then it does. Like the way you can get better as a result of the placebo effect.

The downside is sounding like one of those blokes who rubs special cream into their £10,000 cables.

The basic problem is that even if they did work, that stuff above 20KHz has an effect on what we hear, there is no information about those frequencies on any of the recordings you have. There is literally nothing for the ultra tweeters to reproduce.

 

[8ball]

The basic problem is that even if they did work, that stuff above 20KHz has an effect on what we hear, there is no information about those frequencies on any of the recordings you have. There is literally nothing for the ultra tweeters to reproduce.

Does that assume CD?

 

[Athos]

The basic problem is that even if they did work, that stuff above 20KHz has an effect on what we hear, there is no information about those frequencies on any of the recordings you have. There is literally nothing for the ultra tweeters to reproduce.

I'm not sure that's right. But I do share your scepticism that the improvement I perceive is an unconscious confirmation bias which has not been precluded by proper blind testing (aka the Mrs moving the plugs in and out). I will try to think of more effective way to test.

 

[fishfinger]

I'm not sure that's right. But I do share your scepticism that the improvement I perceive is an unconscious confirmation bias which has not been precluded by proper blind testing (aka the Mrs moving the plugs in and out). I will try to think of more effective way to test.

All the recordings that you listen to will have been put through equipment that operates between 20Hz and 20kHz and then EQed with a 20kHz low pass filter. As beesonthewhatnow says, there is nothing there.

 

[Athos]

All the recordings that you listen to will have been put through equipment that operates between 20Hz and 20kHz and then EQed with a 20kHz low pass filter. As beesonthewhatnow says, there is nothing there.

Oh, I didn't know that. I'd understood that some vinyl goes up to the mid-30KHz range (although I guess that it doesn't matter what the technical possibility is, if the master is EQed with nothing so high). If you're right, then it must be a 'placebo effect' somehow. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing. Will have to look into this a bit more.