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AMICUS/T&G Merger

militant atheist said:
Will the creation of a vast 'super-union' result in an effective force or a powerless bureaucracy remote from its members?

How "lefty" are either unions leadership?
 
Kid_Eternity said:
How "lefty" are either unions leadership?

Derek Simpson(AMICUS), ex-CPGBer , seems alright, critical of government, beat the truly vile Ken Jackson.

Tony Woodley (T&G) defeated Jack Dromey who was seen as Blair's candidate.

So both seen as members of the 'awkward squad'. Just can't understand that with all their financial muscle they seem unable to have any real influence on Labour.
 
Kid_Eternity said:
Tony Woodley always looked like a spineless little weasel to me, at least in interviews...

Woodley is IMO better than Prentice, Simpson et al. In the same camp as CP left in my view. Uses the dreaded 'socialism' word in speeches.
 
I heard a unsubstantiated rumour that woodley chinned simpson for coming out publicly for Gordon Brown at the TUC conference. You remember the newsnight interview with simpson??
 
the ballot paopers will actually be coming out from February 7th (delayed by a month due to legalistic bollocks) with a view to being formally launched no mayday. both execs have given it full supprt, as has a special conference of the T&G (Amicus members weren't actually allowed to discuss details, heck, thats what the exec is for isnt it?), as have both of the (small) broad lefts in the unions. At the T&G conference the only people to oppose it were (by and large) ex-members of the EETPU who left to form another union when the scabs left the TUC. The eetpu is now a part of amicus of course, and amicus bases much of its rule book on the eetpu's! There is currently no rule book in place, just an outline of rules that can be changed virtually at the will of the 'joint general secretaries' - Woodley (who is alright, as said above, like an old CP type) and Simpson (who I wouldnt trust further than I can spit). members will not have a chance to change the rules until 2011, iirr. The recent amicus rule change, to allow the election of full-time officials, has, unsurprisingly, been ditched. the T&G conference was also not allowed to amend any of the proposals as put forward in the merger document, it was merely a rubber stamp exercise.

As to the value of the merger....there are areas where it will be of use in creating a single industry wide union in various areas (car making, aerospace for two), and that's a good thing. But democracy in the unions will be reduced (T&G particularly, the new rules do appear to improve on some of amicus' crapper rules) and the exec will be even more remote than it is now. Whilst it will be a bigger, slightly lefter, bloc within Labour, it will also be far harder to move it from auto-labourism and the vague moves to at least democratise the political funds will be set back.

All in all, it's 50-50, no more than 60-40 in either direction, I think I'll vote against, but could still be convinced to support, under duress.
 
belboid said:
it will also be far harder to move it from auto-labourism and the vague moves to at least democratise the political funds will be set back.

Thanks for that belboid - very useful:) . Would you mind just expanding on this a bit?
 
from the proposed new rule book:
"1.2.4 To further political objectives including by affiliation to the Labour Party."

I'm not sure what the old amicus rule was, but the T&G didnt specify Labour Affiliation in the rules themselves.

Much more on merger shortcomings can be found at http://www.amicus.cc/ - always well worth a read! (especially for the appaling set of names proposed so far)
 
belboid said:
from the proposed new rule book:
"1.2.4 To further political objectives including by affiliation to the Labour Party."

I'm not sure what the old amicus rule was, but the T&G didnt specify Labour Affiliation in the rules themselves.

Much more on merger shortcomings can be found at http://www.amicus.cc/ - always well worth a read! (especially for the appaling set of names proposed so far)

According to TGWU rulebook on branches. Branches can affiliate to local trades councils and local constituency LPs. No choice as far as political affiliation, just the LP.
 
aye, branches, not the union as a whole. That (arguably anyway) made it easier to argue that branches should have the right to give to alternate parties if they wished, whereas under the new rules it will be a question for the entire union, and thus harder to win (as there is an obvious contradiction in one union funding two rival political parties)
 
belboid said:
aye, branches, not the union as a whole. That (arguably anyway) made it easier to argue that branches should have the right to give to alternate parties if they wished, whereas under the new rules it will be a question for the entire union, and thus harder to win (as there is an obvious contradiction in one union funding two rival political parties)

To be honest its all a matter of credibility as far as ordinary members are concerned. The local CLPs are shit , no workers are members. The SSP/Solidarity is a farce. The CNWP are completely absent or have very little influence . Respect is, well Respect and again lack any credibility amongst workers.

The debate in TGWU / Amicus must surely begin to address politicising its members who at the moment feel disenfranchised and powerless. Remember only about 15%(I think ) of TGWU vote in GEC elections so how can you expect them to support any left political party.

If the New Union starts winning for for its members in the workplace then the political change will start . Until then...........
 
tis true that whilst there are f' all left alternatives to Labour it will be even harder to win any argument about opening up/changing the political affiliations, but that isnt really the point is it? (in terms of the rule book changes>
 
belboid said:
tis true that whilst there are f' all left alternatives to Labour it will be even harder to win any argument about opening up/changing the political affiliations, but that isnt really the point is it? (in terms of the rule book changes>

I suppose so.
Rule book changes wont matter squat to the average member. Political affiliation doesntand wont in the current climate mean anything either.
All they will be interested in is whether the Officer will drop everything to come in and represent them when they are in the shit.

Whats your guess for a new name?

Mine is 'The Amalgamated Workers Union'!!

Simpson has got the domain name rights for all the others ( see amicus cc website)
 
members will always be primarily interested in how the union actually serves them when the shit hits the fan - and (largely) rightly so. The merger should lead to a slightly better service for many people (especially those outside of large conurbations where both unions already have offices), but not a significantly better one.

My guess for the name? Woodley has said the T&G will insist it is actually a name that sounds like a union, which is somethng I suppose (Community, for example, is a crap name for a union), so I'm goinbg for something like 'THE Union' or 'Our Union'. It will be a crap name anyroad.
 
nightbreed said:
I heard a unsubstantiated rumour that woodley chinned simpson for coming out publicly for Gordon Brown at the TUC conference. You remember the newsnight interview with simpson??

It wasn't a rumour. Woodley asked me to hold his jacket while he sorted out Simpson. I pointed out to Tony the inadvisability of such an action; and, we agreed, that it I’d be better deployed actually holding Simpson while Woodley chinned him. Whatever you think of Woodley, he does listen to his lay-membership – from time to time – allegedly!
 
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