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Alternative endings for WWI

Lock&Light said:
Whether technically legal or not, (surely there were no International Laws at that time) naval blockades had been used in warfare probably since boats were first conceived.

The Law of the Sea has exiosted for centuries, as far as I can recall its the first example of international laws. I think the illegal bit was to do with stopping neutral shipping and mining international waters.
 
david dissadent said:
Wrong. It was the German Empire since 1871.
well in so far as name... however...

The constitution of the German Empire was a slightly amended version of the North German Confederation's constitution. Officially, the German Empire was a federal state. In practice, Prussia's dominance over the empire was almost absolute

William 1 was prussian royality had they succeed he'd have restored prussia to it's status within europe...
 
Belushi said:
The Law of the Sea has exiosted for centuries, as far as I can recall its the first example of international laws. I think the illegal bit was to do with stopping neutral shipping and mining international waters.

I see. Just as illegal then as the U-Boot campaign or the sinking of the Lusitania.
 
GarfieldLeChat said:
well in so far as name... however...



William 1 was prussian royality had they succeed he'd have restored prussia to it's status within europe...
So technically the German Empire would have won.

Thank you.
 
Lock&Light said:
I see. Just as illegal then as the U-Boot campaign or the sinking of the Lusitania.

Yes, one of the reasons the Germans launched the U-Boat campaign was that the British had already broken international law during the blockade.
 
GarfieldLeChat said:
William 1 was prussian royality had they succeed he'd have restored prussia to it's status within europe...

First, Wilhelm I was long dead before WWI broke out.

Second, Wilhelm II much preferred using the title Emperor, as he was of Germany, to one of his other titles, King of Prussia.
 
Belushi said:
Yes, one of the reasons the Germans launched the U-Boat campaign was that the British had already broken international law during the blockade.

Marching through Belgium was pretty illegal, and came well before the blockade.
 
Belushi said:
The Law of the Sea has exiosted for centuries, as far as I can recall its the first example of international laws. I think the illegal bit was to do with stopping neutral shipping and mining international waters.
Cruiser rules applied. On the whole the RN applied them, other than the mining of international waters. Submarines have one hell of a job applying cruiser rules epsecialy when convoys start forming.
 
Lock&Light said:
First, Wilhelm I was long dead before WWI broke out.

Second, Wilhelm II much preferred using the title Emperor, as he was of Germany, to one of his other titles, King of Prussia.
:rolleyes: ok i admit it was a slight diversion but you see that the discussion of the side topic was about the formation of german empire....
 
david dissadent said:
My guess would be an early cessation would have left Germany with many unfilled domestic problems as people agitated for universal sufferage and strong comunist\ socialist agitation. As a war winner the people would be expecting there reward while the Junkers and upper classes would be resisting holding on to power. The internal divisions that so rapidly tore appart the Austro-Hungarian Empire would have been very strong and outbreaks of rebellion, strikes and general agitation would see central and Eastern Europe as a major strain the Central powers. The Ottomans would have faced the same internal rebellions and nationalist insurgencies that they did in the real world time, with Britain sailing as close to the wind as she dared in openly supporting them.

Russia is unlikely to have experianced the Bolshivik revolution and instead had a series of shakey increasingly socialist governments probibly breaking up with German agitation into mostly what we have today.The UK is most likely to have offerend financial and other support to Russia, Italy, Spain and others who would hold a generaly anti German hegmony line on the continent. Willhelm II would have most likely provoked fears for the soveriegnty of those states. France would have had too disarm, surrender terrirory, facotries and probibly be turned into an agrarian backwater rather than occupied other than its sea ports. However with the Imperail beast roaming the seas at will, the Germans would have probibly had to garrison France at great cost against a British invasion. The High Seas Fleet would have been broken by gaining France. It was designed by Tirpitz to form a coherant squadron that was large enough to pose an unacceptable risk to damage the Royal Navy enough to make her vaulnrable to other world powers. It was never intended to fight for sea superiority with the RN, just engage a Home Fleet and be able to inflict mass losses. This was the Risk Theory. With sea ports in France the HSF would need to be broken up to form Atlantic and Medeteranian squadrons it would have been horribly exposed to be 'dispatched in detail'. Each squadron picked off one by one. Whats worse the ships of the HSF were custom built for a days sailing in the North Sea. They design was for short sprints out to battle. The RN was designed as a global war machine with ships duely appointed.

All male emancipation in the UK would mean the UK had far far fewer internal pressures than Germany. Its people were already heard. And it is probible that a less enraged reaction to 1916 would have seen far diminished support for the IRA (Im 50/50 on this but its one of those what if what ifs) So a home rule for Ireland could have seen a more West Lothian style solution than the Free State.

Oh and for the Middle East Forum peeps. No Israel.

The actual situation that a land defeat in 1914 for Britain would be either sign a peace pact with Germany allowed to trade with the world, or both nations continue hostilities with counter trade blokades being enforced by submarine and battle fleet. Germany is actualy in the weaker position. The uboats on 1914 and not the great Type VIIs of 1941. They are suceptable to close blockade of the ports if they try to operate out of france, and subjected to regular bombardment by sea. While the UK can cut its loses to uboats substantialy by implementing a convoy system. They also can get alot of supplies through on neutral shipping. The Germans can get nothing through except the occasional blockade runners, unless it is sent to France, which Britain can declare ilegally occupied and an enemy combatant.

The US is most interesting but would likely seek a peacful solution or support the UK, as the anti democratic forces in Germany and the stunting of democracy in France would be seen very negatively by the wider American public. Others can disagree.

Thats all I have timefor at the minute.


Fab stuff.
 
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