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All those not happy with the new highway code blaming cyclists

zenie

>^^<
The Highway Code is currently in draft re-write to make it easier to blame cyclists in an accident.

Basically, have a quick read of this and if you want to, stick your name and email in. Not much else to do.

http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=4303#polwizHC

You’ll probably get a letter from your MP, in “houses of parliament” livery as well. I did and I’m now an addicted “writing all the time to my MP” person. :D

*Young enough to think she can change the world* :rolleyes:
 
Didn't we have a thread about this the other day? which then prompted me to write to MP and get reply..
 
Sorry if it's a repeat

rich! said:
Didn't we have a thread about this the other day? which then prompted me to write to MP and get reply..

Did we?? :( I didnt see a link or anything?

Maybe your MP is not so nice, I'd give them a call and demand a reply if I were you :D What else do they fuckin do all day??
 
I haven't seen anything before so thanx for this, and mail winging its way to the fragrant Diane Abbot MP as we speak ;)

Maybe the Warrington Cycle Campaign website cycle facility of the month could help demonstrate the all-too-ovbvious problems with using cycle lanes and the like (let alone the fact that ASLs are routinely over-run by other traffic, including a cop car I observed on Kingsland Road a couple of weeks ago, couldn't get my camera out quick enough to get a snap of the bugger).
 
lighterthief said:
Yeah, this whole issue of "contributory negligence" is worrying. I've already written to my MP.

Is it?

'If a cyclist was injured and there was a cycle facility nearby (of whatever kind), the driver’s insurer would have all the pretext they needed to argue that any compensation due to the cyclist should be reduced on the basis of “contributory negligence”, i.e. that the cyclist was at least partly the author of his/her own misfortune because if s/he had been using the cycle facility, the collision would not have occurred.'

WTF is wrong with that?

You want to have the option of being renumerated if you're in an accident which could have been avoided if you had exercised more care by using cycle facilities installed for cyclists?!

Yeah, right! :D
 
Any chance of making pedestrians legally responsible for their lemming-like actions? They're the ones who cause the most danger as far as two-wheel vehicles are concerned, and the only ones who cannot be legally at fault :mad:
 
T & P said:
Any chance of making pedestrians legally responsible for their lemming-like actions? They're the ones who cause the most danger as far as two-wheel vehicles are concerned, and the only ones who cannot be legally at fault :mad:


pedestrians can be negligent if they just step out in front of you. judges wiouldn't have any problem agreeing taht
 
It's crap

The problem is where before it was a choice now the choice has been taken away from cyclists.

The blame has shifted from a driver driving dangerously to a cyclist not being allowed on a public highway.

"So because you were pissed and smashed your car into me it's my fault because I am no longer allowed to cycle on the road?" :confused:
 
The new text basically says if there's a cycle lane you've got to be in it - other wise you're fair game for all comers...

This stinks.

Yeah - I really want to cycle through gutters, broken glass, bits of discarded car, careless pedestrians, parked cars, and I oh so want to be left-turned on.

:mad: :mad:
 
Buds and Spawn said:
The new text basically says if there's a cycle lane you've got to be in it - other wise you're fair game for all comers...

This stinks.

Yeah - I really want to cycle through gutters, broken glass, bits of discarded car, careless pedestrians, parked cars, and I oh so want to be left-turned on.

:mad: :mad:

Well that is one interpretation of it!

Another one is: don't expect to be automatically renumerated if you're involved in an accident that happens when you choose not to make use of available cycling facilities installed for the safety of cyclists.
 
fanta said:
Well that is one interpretation of it!

Another one is: don't expect to be automatically renumerated if you're involved in an accident that happens when you choose not to make use of available cycling facilities installed for the safety of cyclists.

What if the accident isn't your fault? :confused:
 
zenie said:
The problem is where before it was a choice now the choice has been taken away from cyclists.

The blame has shifted from a driver driving dangerously to a cyclist not being allowed on a public highway.

"So because you were pissed and smashed your car into me it's my fault because I am no longer allowed to cycle on the road?" :confused:

The choice hasn't been taken away from cyclists.

Cyclists are still free to not use cycling facilities installed for their own safety - as long as they don't expect to be renumerated following an accident that could have been avoided if they had the wit to make use of said facilities.
 
fanta said:
The choice hasn't been taken away from cyclists.

Cyclists are still free to not use cycling facilities installed for their own safety - as long as they don't expect to be renumerated following an accident that could have been avoided if they had the wit to make use of said facilities.
I refer you to my post above ;)
 
zenie said:
What if the accident isn't your fault? :confused:

Arguably, it is at least partly the fault of the cyclist if the cyclist is choosing not to use facilities installed for their safety.

Consider a pedestrian choosing to cross the road without using a pedestrian crossing - if s/he is struck by a car then surely s/he must share some blame?
 
often the cycle lanes and the boxes at traffic lights have cars in them, what are cyclists meant to do?

the pavement is a pedestrian area, the road is a car area, there's the odd cycle lane about (often disappearing into nowhere or taken up by motorbikes and cars) but most people who don't cycle act like cyclists cause all the problems, when actually we're just not catered for very well.

someone once complained to me that taking children on a bicycle was a dreadful irresponsible thing to do, but it's not bikes that generally kill children, it's cars, but no one thinks we should get rid of cars. the world seems to just be full of incredibly selfish idiots sometimes.
 
fanta said:
Arguably, it is at least partly the fault of the cyclist if the cyclist is choosing not to use facilities installed for their safety.

Consider a pedestrian choosing to cross the road without using a pedestrian crossing - if s/he is struck by a car then surely s/he must share some blame?

But we don't at all :confused:

This isn't the US so 'jay walking' doens't apply.
 
fanta said:
The choice hasn't been taken away from cyclists.

Cyclists are still free to not use cycling facilities installed for their own safety - as long as they don't expect to be renumerated following an accident that could have been avoided if they had the wit to make use of said facilities.

What about if using said facilities actually increases the chances of an accident? Cycling facilities are (mostly) not installed for our safety, they are installed so that the local council can meet their sustainable transport targets. Green paint on the road does not automatically make it safer.
 
zenie said:
What if the accident isn't your fault? :confused:
the thing is if you don't use the faculities it will be assumed that you are at fault by default as you had an alternative which would have caused no action.

In essence this is correct i mean if i stab myself in the leg with a knife i should accept that it's my fault for misusing the knife not the manicafuters for make a product which was capable of implaing my leg... however the concern is i assume that this will be used as a get out clause not only for insurence compaines (and let's face it they hardley need the advantage or further get out clauses) or by negligent and careless drivers as a way of excusing the poor driving habits which were a greater contributory factor.

However, as usual the more reactionary cycling lobby, are being sanctimonious and also knee jerk in their reaction. the simple fact of the matter is that previous cases under current law show that the "contributory negligence" ascpets are already enforced in a manner which is applicable to the situation. In the case they use to justify their hysteria the parents were being negligent in allowing a 9 year old child out on the road on a bike with out a helmet, few, other than it appears the hysterical, would disagree with this; therefore there was contributory negligence involved in the accident. sadly of course this doesn't help the boy but compensation is not about financal reward or betterment, nor should it be seen as such.

in reality in terms of contributory negligence you rarely get cases of other forms of motoring claims which is exucsed by the insurence compaines which says well if the driver of the vechial our client crashed into had been more enviromentally friendly then they would have been ona bus and our client wouldn't have hit their car...

what you do get is split negligence claims and attributed negligence where there is a case of it being 6 of one and half a dozen of the other, which in fairness if most road traffic accidents...

Cycleists are more vunerable and therefore will normally come off worse in accidents as a result regardless of the culpability; drivers are painfully unaware of things on two wheels or even on why other drivers who do notice things on two wheels move out to allow them some room; this new legislation does nothing to reduce the responsiblity for all road users to beaware of the enviroment they find themselves in.

It does however, place responsiblity on cyclists shoulders for their actions, something which previously has not been addressed except by the legislation of darwin.

put simply if you are hit by and arsehole driver on the road next to a cycle lane minding your own beeswax the driver will still pay, if you run a red light or pop a wheelie of the pavement into oncoming traffic and get swiped then you will be held liable when you are hit...

I would have thoguht this appeals to all sensible car drivers and cyclists, and will only affect the minority of poor cycleists and the increaseing majority of bad drivers...

I see it as a benifit....
 
myname said:
often the cycle lanes and the boxes at traffic lights have cars in them, what are cyclists meant to do?

the pavement is a pedestrian area, the road is a car area, there's the odd cycle lane about (often disappearing into nowhere or taken up by motorbikes and cars) but most people who don't cycle act like cyclists cause all the problems, when actually we're just not catered for very well.

Agreed. That requires legislation, I guess.
 
rubbershoes said:
pedestrians can be negligent if they just step out in front of you. judges wiouldn't have any problem agreeing taht
I'm not sure that would get you very far other than exculpating you of any guilt.

The only accident I've ever had on my scooter was when a stupid cow decided to leap onto the road between two stopped buses, right in front of me, and started to cross looking the other way.

I collided with her and she was off work for two weeks with cuts & bruises. Despite the woman apologising on the spot and saying to the four winds 'it was my fault' as she was put into an ambulance, I got a letter from an ambulance chasing solicitors firm a couple of months letter giving a rather creative version of events and suing me for compensation.

I felt absolutely apoplectic with rage at the lying cunt and had an urge to sue her to fuck for damages myself (I got a bruised leg myself, and a scratched bike to boot), but was led to believe by several sources including my own insurance legal team than other than repelling her legal action I had very little chance of ever receiving a penny from her.
 
T & P said:
Any chance of making pedestrians legally responsible for their lemming-like actions? They're the ones who cause the most danger as far as two-wheel vehicles are concerned, and the only ones who cannot be legally at fault :mad:
Oh yes they can. Pedestrians using a public road owe a duty of care to other road users, pedestrian, cyclist, motorbike, car or whatever just like anyone else. If, through their negligence someone suffers damage, loss or injury then they can be sued just like anyone else.

Just 'cos it doesn't happen doesn't mean it CAN'T happen!

Unfortunately (a) they quite often fuck off before anyone can get their name; (b) quite often give false names and addresses and there is no legal power to require the right one (even if police are called); (c) do not have to have insurance and (d) quite often have no money of their own and hence it ain't worth suing them 'cos there's fuck all to get. Cyclists are nearly as bomb proof (but there are traffic offences of reckless and careless cycling so if police are present they can obtain correct details or arrest).

I have twice been taken off my bike by pedestrians crossing the road negligently. In both cases (a) applied. If it had not then I WOULD have sued them out of fucking principle.
 
zenie said:
The blame has shifted from a driver driving dangerously to a cyclist not being allowed on a public highway.

"So because you were pissed and smashed your car into me it's my fault because I am no longer allowed to cycle on the road?" :confused:
There's nothing like exaggeration to undermine what was a valid point, is there?
 
GarfieldLeChat said:
it isn't but walking out into the road is still technically and offense...
It is not a criminal or pseudo-criminal offence like in the US. You cannot be prosecuted or issued a fixed penalty notice for it. BUt if you are negligent in your duty of care to other road users you may be sued in the civil courts.
 
fanta said:
Is it?

'If a cyclist was injured and there was a cycle facility nearby (of whatever kind), the driver’s insurer would have all the pretext they needed to argue that any compensation due to the cyclist should be reduced on the basis of “contributory negligence”, i.e. that the cyclist was at least partly the author of his/her own misfortune because if s/he had been using the cycle facility, the collision would not have occurred.'

WTF is wrong with that?

You want to have the option of being renumerated if you're in an accident which could have been avoided if you had exercised more care by using cycle facilities installed for cyclists?!

Yeah, right! :D

Yes, it is.

Cyclists have a legal right to use the road, to the same extent as any other road user. Just because there may a cycle 'facility' nearby (let's leave aside any question as to whether it is actually safer to use these 'facilities' - it often isn't) doesn't mean that if I choose not to use it means I am somehow at 'fault' for not doing so.

I am not legally obliged to use cycle lanes or wear a cycle helmet. If I'm skimming along on the main road and some drunk plonker sideswipes me and crunches my skull to little pieces, should any compensation I am awarded be reduced because I wasn't in a cycle lane or wearing a helmet? I think not.
 
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