all the nutty sept 11 conspiracy theories: who thinks them up?

[Lock&Light]

I have not talked of missiles, where did they come from?

Perhaps you should stop thinking, just for a moment, and read the title of this thread.

 

[editor]

But you still made an evidence-free claim which editor hates the 'bonkers' crowd doing, but seems not to want to challenge such evidence-free claims when they come from posters who he doesn't want to challenge.

There's lots of evidence for the phone calls which tear apart the wild conspiracy theories.


Of course, you're not interested in challenging certain evidence-unchallenged theories, because in your quest for 'the truth' you're only interested in things that fit your own prejudices and beliefs.

But that's already been fully explained to you by tarannau who rattled you so much with the truth, you flounced off!!!

Truth hurts, eh, fela?

 

[fela fan]

There's lots of evidence for the phone calls which tear apart the wild conspiracy theories.


Of course, you're not interested in challenging certain evidence-unchallenged theories, because in your quest for 'the truth' you're only interested in things that fit your own prejudices and beliefs.

But that's already been fully explained to you by tarannau who rattled you so much with the truth, you flounced off!!!

Truth hurts, eh, fela?

It most certainly does seem to hurt editor.

Could you explain to me precisely where, and i might be able to offer some advice. Being the helpful kind of person i am.

 

[fela fan]

Perhaps you should stop thinking, just for a moment, and read the title of this thread.

And now you're telling me NOT to think. Fuck, which is it to be man?? Do i think or not think? Which do you want me to do? I'm well confused now.

 

[fela fan]

Of course, you're not interested in challenging certain evidence-unchallenged theories, because in your quest for 'the truth' you're only interested in things that fit your own prejudices and beliefs.

I am flabbergasted.

If only you could actually see what you're writing here...

I simply cannot believe you can't see how accurately you have just described yourself when it comes to these 911 threads.

 

[Lock&Light]

I'm well confused now.

To be honest, you don't seem to be any different than before.

 

[FreddyB]

I have also wondered out loud on this forum who was behind the attacks, who planned them.

And it's my belief that elements of the US elites initiated the plan, quite possibly having OBL carry it out.

Its possible to construct a hypothesis that fits with the publicly available evidence that elements within the USG knew that the 9/11 attacks were coming and deliberately ignored them in an oppurtunistic way. The motive being the invasion of Iraq on yet more flawed intelligence aka downright lies. There would be no point or need for any planning or involvement in the attacks themselves.

This would both explain the passport etc and the current world situations apparent lack of planning.

Problem with it is though, short of a signed confession from those involved it is only ever a theory, find as much evidence as you like and its only their word against yours.

 

[yozz]

Its possible to construct a hypothesis that fits with the publicly available evidence that elements within the USG knew that the 9/11 attacks were coming and deliberately ignored them in an oppurtunistic way. The motive being the invasion of Iraq on yet more flawed intelligence aka downright lies. There would be no point or need for any planning or involvement in the attacks themselves.

This would both explain the passport etc and the current world situations apparent lack of planning.

Problem with it is though, short of a signed confession from those involved it is only ever a theory, find as much evidence as you like and its only their word against yours.

That comes closest to my thoughts on 9/11. There was prior intelligence suggesting that an attack was imminent. Also that it would involve aeroplanes or at least one aeroplane. The previous day members of Congress were warned, out of the blue, not to travel by air for security reasons. That suggests there was also an idea of when the attack would take place.

9/11 also gave Bush and his oil buddies the opportunity to invade Afghanistan not just Iraq. Negotiations with the Taliban about oil pipeline routes had not long broken down.

As you said short of written confessions it's difficult to prove which probably explains the lack of stories in the mainstream press. You don't make those kind of allegations against the most powerful man on the planet unless you have hard evidence. Anything that could lead to that evidence has been suppressed for 'security' reasons.

The whole thing reeks but there's never been hard evidence available and with the passage of time it seems less and less important to keep looking for something that's been overlooked.

Slag off the conspiracy theorists as much as you like but they are keeping the events of 9/11 alive in the public mind. I think it's important to do that. All too often these government conspirers rely on public apathy and the overtaking of their actions with new news events.

 

[Loki]

Slag off the conspiracy theorists as much as you like but they are keeping the events of 9/11 alive in the public mind.

I honestly don't need conspiracy theorists to constantly, repetitively remind me of the events of 9/11 with their own bizzare spin on events; it's not an event I'm likely to forget. I've heard everything they've got to say (several times).

 

[butchersapron]

No - they're doing nothing of the sort - they're making people forget them. The actions of Bush/capital and their use of the events, and the reactions of the Iraqi/Afghanistan working class are keeping them alive- not some poorly researched clown on the internet that no fucker has ever heard of - real fucking life. Let me know when DJ is referenced as an expert anywhere please. These people are not on anyone's map.

 

[yozz]

No - they're doing nothing of the sort - they're making people forget them. The actions of Bush/capital and their use of the events, and the reactions of the Iraqi/Afghanistan working class are keeping them alive- not some poorly researched clown on the internet that no fucker has ever heard of - real fucking life. Let me know when DJ is referenced as an expert anywhere please. These people are not on anyone's map.

I disagree butchers. Take Michael Moore as an example. I've had more thoughtful conversations recently about 9/11 with my workmates who've seen Fahrenheit 9/11 than for a long time. The Iraqi/Afghanistan working class doesn't even register with most of them. They see Muslims not working class resistance. But they also see Bush and Blair on the tele and know these twats are lying.

No one's talking about 'experts' so why bring it in. It's a strawman.

 

[butchersapron]

So hang on - the experience of these iraqi and Afghans w/c is somehow not as important as your mates opinions? (I don't actually think you're saying that btw - i'm just confused as toy what you are saying). The fact the Iraqi/Afghanistan working class doesn't even register with most of them is neither here nor there is it? They're the ones that matter here surely - not your mates - and they're keeping it well alive.

I have to admit that i'm a little unclear as to what you're saying tbh

 

[yozz]

I honestly don't need conspiracy theorists to constantly, repetitively remind me of the events of 9/11 with their own bizzare spin on events; it's not an event I'm likely to forget. I've heard everything they've got to say (several times).

That's fair enough Loki. But I'm not just talking about you or these boards.

 

[yozz]

So hang on - the experience of these iraqi and Afghans w/c is somehow not as important as your mates opinions? (I don't actually think you're saying that btw - i'm just confused as toy what you are saying). The fact the Iraqi/Afghanistan working class doesn't even register with most of them is neither here nor there is it? They're the ones that matter here surely - not your mates - and they're keeping it well alive.

I have to admit that i'm a little unclear as to what you're saying tbh

That's probably because it's Saturday night and I'm getting pissed mate.

Can we have a proper natter about this sometime tomorrow? I think working class resistance in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere is essential, but sometimes you have to make the most of what's available.

 

[editor]

Now then editor, there is an example of evidence-free claims.

I fear your time on these boards is numbered, fela.

 

[editor]

I simply cannot believe you can't see how accurately you have just described yourself when it comes to these 911 threads.

I fear your time on these boards is numbered, fela.

Time to enjoy the wide open plains of citizens boards, perhaps?

 

[butchersapron]

That's probably because it's Saturday night and I'm getting pissed mate.

Can we have a proper natter about this sometime tomorrow? I think working class resistance in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere is essential, but sometimes you have to make the most of what's available.

Of course - i'm in the same state

 

[pbman]

on

who comes up with these barking ideas? who could possibly dream up the delusions about lizardmen, or remote-controlled planes, and who could plausibly assert that the passengers had mysteriously been taken off the planes?

Those who actaully did it,and organised 9/11.

And their minions/simpathisers and simple a-holes who love to bullshit people for the cruel fun of it, take yoru pick, no doubt probably all of them in verying degrees come up with that shit.

 

[pbman]

Here were they come from.

http://www.buttafly.com/bush/index.php

 

[yozz]

So hang on - the experience of these iraqi and Afghans w/c is somehow not as important as your mates opinions? (I don't actually think you're saying that btw - i'm just confused as toy what you are saying). The fact the Iraqi/Afghanistan working class doesn't even register with most of them is neither here nor there is it? They're the ones that matter here surely - not your mates - and they're keeping it well alive.

I have to admit that i'm a little unclear as to what you're saying tbh

Okay I probably wasn't making myself clear. So here goes.

No I don't think my mates opinions are any more important than the experiences of the Afghan/Iraqi w/c. But outside of protesting I don't have the opportunity to influence or directly support the Afghanistan/Iraqi working class. I have that opportunity everyday with my mates. But the discussions are usually framed in the language of the mainstream media. So instead of it being the Iraqi working class fighting back it's normally Iraqi or Muslim militants fighting back. I can argue until I'm blue in the face that it's a class issue but if I'm not convincing anyone else then I'm wasting my time. If I argue it's about oil and lying politicians who should never be trusted then I usually find common ground.

No one I know trusts Blair, Bush or anyone surrounding them. Most people I know think there's something dodgy about 9/11. They're more receptive to conspiracy theories like Michael Moore's than they are to theories about working class solidarity.

That's my experience butchers.

 

[fela fan]

No one I know trusts Blair, Bush or anyone surrounding them. Most people I know think there's something dodgy about 9/11. They're more receptive to conspiracy theories like Michael Moore's than they are to theories about working class solidarity.

That isn't what editor has led the forum to believe. Not being in england i once specifically asked the forum what the average person on the street in britain thought about 911. I was told only people like myself thought things dodgy, and that i should realise i'm in a tiny minority.

Whenever you chat about the topic yozz, is it ever mentioned or queried as to why the press leave the topic alone?

What exactly do they find dodgy, or is there just a general feeling that not all is as we've been told?

 

[Jazzz]

I fear your time on these boards is numbered, fela.

My gran always comes out with these mixed metaphors! But then again, she is Swiss really so you can't blame her

 

[editor]

That isn't what editor has led the forum to believe.

Oh fuck off with your pathetic lies.

I don't trust Blair and I certainly don't trust Bush, so you can shove your unpleasant misrepresentations right up your perception filter.

I went on many anti-war marches after 9/11. What did you do?

 

[editor]

My gran always comes out with these mixed metaphors! But then again, she is Swiss really so you can't blame her

Thanks for that worthy gem, DrJ.

Great input!

 

[Jazzz]

Thanks for that worthy gem, DrJ.

Great input!

The gem was all yours!!!!

But I have to say, it doesn't really compare to my gran's... if she considered something was in your area of expertise, she would declare it "right up your sleeve"

 

[fela fan]

Oh fuck off with your pathetic lies.

I don't trust Blair and I certainly don't trust Bush, so you can shove your unpleasant misrepresentations right up your perception filter.

I went on many anti-war marches after 9/11. What did you do?

Were you to have read my post properly you'd realise i wasn't talking about you and your reaction to blair or bush.

So no lies from me. Just nice honest opinions telling it the way it is!

What did i do? Can't remember. Think i was in the mountains far far away from all the garbage the leaders of the western world were chucking out. Bit difficult to go on a march that's 10,000 kms away, i'm sure you'd agree.

You can't shove things into filters, they're filters, they sift of their own accord.

 

[Kameron]

The gem was all yours!!!!

But I have to say, it doesn't really compare to my gran's... if she considered something was in your area of expertise, she would declare it "right up your sleeve"

I find this a bit rich from someone who has claimed their areas of expertise as, nuclear chemistry, photo analysis, seismic interpretation, aircraft auto takeoff and remote control, faking telephone calls, structural engineering, material transform, explosives, identity theft and accident investigations to name but a few.

 

[fela fan]

I find this a bit rich from someone who has claimed their areas of expertise as, nuclear chemistry, photo analysis, seismic interpretation, aircraft auto takeoff and remote control, faking telephone calls, structural engineering, material transform, explosives, identity theft and accident investigations to name but a few.

I can't recall him doing this at all kameron.

It seems to me you're delighting in putting words into the dr's mouth. Why do you do this?

 

[editor]

Were you to have read my post properly you'd realise i wasn't talking about you and your reaction to blair or bush.

Posted by yozz:
No one I know trusts Blair, Bush or anyone surrounding them.

Posted by fela fan
That isn't what editor has led the forum to believe.

QED. HTH. HAND.

 

[fela fan]

Posted by yozz:
No one I know trusts Blair, Bush or anyone surrounding them.

Posted by fela fan
That isn't what editor has led the forum to believe.

QED. HTH. HAND.

Incredible!! Your selectiveness knows no bounds!

Okay, let's try a bit of QED myself...

Posted by yozz and then quoted by fela fan:

"No one I know trusts Blair, Bush or anyone surrounding them. Most people I know think there's something dodgy about 9/11. They're more receptive to conspiracy theories like Michael Moore's than they are to theories about working class solidarity."

In quoting that bit by yozz, fela fan then replied:

"That isn't what editor has led the forum to believe. Not being in england i once specifically asked the forum what the average person on the street in britain thought about 911. I was told only people like myself thought things dodgy, and that i should realise i'm in a tiny minority."

I leave it to other posters to decide upon which QED has more substance.