All religions are all the same

[Aldebaran]

Idolatry is against tevhid, sure, and it is probably shirk, but it ain't blasphemy. Blasphemy would be speaking to defame/harm/deny the prophets/the Qur'an etc.

No blasphemy is everything that sets no matter what at equal foot with God. An idol worshipper is what Al Qur'an so often refers to when it speaks about the polytheïsts of Mecca. It's probably a language thing. I don't find an other English word for it.
By the way, why do you think mawlid = worshipping the Prophet?
It has nothing to see with worship, all with remembrance, hence celebration of the birth of Muhammed and with him the birth of Islam. Celebrated is both.
There is historically even no source for any birthdate of the prophet Muhammed.

salaam.

 

[Aldebaran]

Aldebaran, out sailing earlier today:

Wrong. My boat is larger has more sailing power and is not white.

salaam.

 

[Aldebaran]

Do you have a link to where I could buy one?

I don't have English translations. I can ask around if you want.

salaam.

 

[selamlar]

Its a celebration of the birth of the prophet, which although in and of itself doesn't necessarily constitute worship (and certainly the celebrants would deny that it did) does hold very much in line with the celebration of other prophets birthdays (christmas, for example) that many authorities do see as evidence of worship. The Saudi's certainly seem to believe that it crosses the line.

I would tend to agree that Muhammed isn't worshipped in (orthadox) Islam, but just saying 'Oh no it isn't' isn't quite enough to explain why Muhammed's birthday is celebrated, whereas the birthdays of the other Prophets (by and large) aren't. It is also the case that relics such as these:

http://www.ee.bilkent.edu.tr/~history/topkapi.html
are extremely venerated (even though it appears to be quite clear that they shouldn't be), with an imam reciting prayers 24 hours a day etc.

 

[Aldebaran]

Its a celebration of the birth of the prophet, which although in and of itself doesn't necessarily constitute worship (and certainly the celebrants would deny that it did) does hold very much in line with the celebration of other prophets birthdays (christmas, for example) that many authorities do see as evidence of worship. The Saudi's certainly seem to believe that it crosses the line.

For me all of that crosses the line, but it is people/societies establishing and respecting folklore can't be avoided.
And you speak against yourself with noting that the very people who practice it deny it comes down to worship.
So you know better than they do (and than I do)? Very strange.... How? Why?

salaam.

 

[Malamud]

And you speak against yourself with noting that the very people who practice it deny it comes down to worship.

A lot of people (mostly men) worship their cars and can still deny it.

 

[gorski]

Hitchens vs Olasky

 

[Cid]

A lot of people (mostly men) worship their cars and can still deny it.

Er... surely that would be a prime example of veneration being distinct from worship?

 

[Malamud]

Er... surely that would be a prime example of veneration being distinct from worship?

I've never seen much distinction between veneration and worship.

 

[merlin wood]

All religions are the same in that they provide explanations of the meaning of life that cannot be confirmed by observable evidence.

 

[gorski]

Sorry:

 

[smmudge]

I think an important aspect of religion is being overlooked. Aside from the supernatural elements or methods of worship, shouldn't we consider how these are used to exert power over groups of people?

Is a personal metaphysical philosophy a religion? Does a doctrine that gives life meaning to many people (without supernatural aspects) count as a religion?

 

[toblerone3]

I think an important aspect of religion is being overlooked. Aside from the supernatural elements or methods of worship, shouldn't we consider how these are used to exert power over groups of people?

Is a personal metaphysical philosophy a religion? Does a doctrine that gives life meaning to many people (without supernatural aspects) count as a religion?

totally agree power tripping is anti-religous. Buddhism is different from other religions. Buddhism is science. Buddhism is an attempt to solve a problem.

Problem: There is a lot of suffering in life. Suffering is shit. How can we overcome it?

Solution: Follow Buddhist teachers. Many different meditational practices. But the Buddha had a scientific attitude "Buddhism is reason, test the truth of Buddhism", he said.

Even if the exact prescriptions that the Buddha recommended are all wrong, the quest of overcoming (or lessening suffering, increasing happiness) that the Buddha focussed on is absolutely valid and surely should be the focus of all philosophy and politics.

I am also impressed by the fact that he refused to answer certain questions. Are there Buddhas on other planets? he was asked.

"I will not answer that question." he said. Perhaps he didn't even know the answer, but more importantly perhaps he thought that question is idle speculation. Focus on what is important on this planet.

 

[Aldebaran]

I've never seen much distinction between veneration and worship.

Veneration is a form of admiration focused on defined or visible object/subject/person, for whatever reason defined by the one who venerates.

Worship is emotion focusing on what can't be defined in words or thoughts and for that reason.

salaam.

 

[iROBOT]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Sufism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Sufi_saints

This is a branch of Islam that certainly does have Saints.

Discuss.

 

[rover07]

totally agree power tripping is anti-religous. Buddhism is different from other religions. Buddhism is science. Buddhism is an attempt to solve a problem.

Problem: There is a lot of suffering in life. Suffering is shit. How can we overcome it?

Solution: Follow Buddhist teachers. Many different meditational practices. But the Buddha had a scientific attitude "Buddhism is reason, test the truth of Buddhism", he said.

Even if the exact prescriptions that the Buddha recommended are all wrong, the quest of overcoming (or lessening suffering, increasing happiness) that the Buddha focussed on is absolutely valid and surely should be the focus of all philosophy and politics.

I am also impressed by the fact that he refused to answer certain questions. Are there Buddhas on other planets? he was asked.

"I will not answer that question." he said. Perhaps he didn't even know the answer, but more importantly perhaps he thought that question is idle speculation. Focus on what is important on this planet.

Never did like Buddha...

Fat smart-arse IMO

 

[selamlar]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Sufism.



This is a branch of Islam that certainly does have Saints.

Discuss.

Keep up!

Not the best link, but a way in. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajji_Bektash_Wali

Idolatry, rather than blasphemy, I would have thought, although 15 million alevi's would disagree. Of course, thats if the alevis are muslims. There is quite some debate on the matter.

 

[iROBOT]

Opps...pretty sure I read every post!