All of Lambeth is now under a Section 60 stop and search order until 5am, Weds 7th Nov

Discussion in 'Brixton' started by editor, Nov 6, 2018.

  1. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    In Lambeth services for young people have been cut to the bone.

    Take the Grove adventure playground I'm involved in. A group of local volunteers have reopened it. The Council haven't helped at all. They see it as a development site.

    Young people in Lambeth have very little in the way of youth provision.

    Knee jerk populist measures which go down well with public ( see posts here) work in that sense but don't do anything to deal with underlying issues.

    Youth provision cuts is one of them.
    Plumdaff and Smick like this.
  2. T & P

    T & P |-o-| (-o-) |-o-|

    It's a desperately sad and horrible situation and I am as clueless as anyone else as to how to best solve it. Well, ending poverty and inequality would of course, but we all know how likely is that to happen.

    What I would say is that while violent crime will never be fully eradicated, what shocks me is the apparent cheapening of the value of a human life by some these kids/ young men. The odd death prompted by a fight getting out of hand, robbery gone wrong etc will always be inevitable. But now we appear to have regular murders where the victim was guilty of little more of 'disrespecting' someone else, or having an argument on the bus. If we have really reached a point where some young people consider a stabbing a fair reprisal for such trivial matters, we're fucked and urgent action is needed.

    And punishment and legal threats will not work against that. We need to change such mindset with education and support.
  3. Shippou-Sensei

    Shippou-Sensei 4:1:2.5

    Camden is in lock down tonight.
    Pickman's model likes this.
  4. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    I was talking with someone the other day about Sus laws and is there a difference between Stop and Search. I think the difference was you could be arrested purely for being "suspicious" in the eyes of the individual cop. If thats wrong please let me know. We weren't sure.
  5. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Starry Wisdom

    swamp 81 18 on tour
    Gramsci likes this.
  6. editor

    editor Forked with electrons

  7. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Starry Wisdom

  8. GarveyLives

    GarveyLives Well-Known Member


    (1) Have any figures yet been released to show how many people carrying dangerous weapons were arrested and charged as a result of the section 60 order?

    (2) Do the Metropolitan Police intend to issue any statement describing how their investigations into the killings that gave rise to the section 60 order progressed as a result of its issuance?

    (3) What is the plan from 5.01 a.m. on Wednesday 7 November 2018 onwards?

    (4) My sense is that the introudction of any such curfews is unlikely to be based solely on age, but rather on a combination of age and race, until such time as the ethnic majority in Brixton (and elswhere in London) suffers a similar spate of killings.

    (5) This is broadly correct.

    Commander Fairbairn and Inspector Plowman's 'Swamp 81' operation was launched on the pretext of preventing street robberies (and detecting those responsible), and resulted in a number of arrests for assault on police and or obstruction (i.e. offences connected with being stopped) rather than significant arrests of those involved in street robberies. As you correctly recall, it also led to what were at the time the largest street disturbances for many years, albeit with significantly less weaponry than is available to all parties today.

    A sobering thought.
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
    Gramsci likes this.
  9. editor

    editor Forked with electrons

    Sorry, I should have that clearer. The article is made up of the interesting comments.
  10. GarveyLives

    GarveyLives Well-Known Member

  11. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    Was cycling home tonight from work. Was going up Brixton Station road towards LJ about 10pm. On corner with Gresham road it was all taped off. Policewoman said it was stabbing that had just happened.

    Hope no one was killed. But taping off whole junction means it was serious. No traffic or pedestrians allowed.
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
  12. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

  13. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    Im not a lawyer so the legal difference is beyond me.

    I think now they have to explain what they are doing. Late seventies early eighties policing was somewhat different. i was stopped and searched during Swamp 81. And I am white.

    Thing is it was different era. If you lived in Brixton you were scum. One thing Thatcher did was support the police. In return they became "Maggies Army". Legal niceties went out the window gradually in the 80s. Riots the Miners strike.

    One thing I learnt from 80s there is rule of law in this country. But how its applied is variable.
    Pickman's model likes this.
  14. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    Worth repeating GarveyLives post:

    I agree with Garvey.
  15. ricbake

    ricbake working out how

    Another boy in hospital
    Brutally assaulted near the police station

  16. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    As I said came by there at about 10pm. Whole junction closed off.
  17. editor

    editor Forked with electrons

    That's awful. It's so depressing and heartbreaking to see this pointless carnage taking place every day, and it's even more soul-wrenching when it's taking place outside your home.
    Gramsci likes this.
  18. GarveyLives

    GarveyLives Well-Known Member

    The bandwagon gathers pace ...

    Police in talks to scrap 'reasonable grounds' condition for stop and search

    Stop and search makes crime more likely, report finds

    Stop and search harms fight against knife crime, Met officer says

    As a black former detective, I know that extending stop and search powers could drag us back to the bad old days

    Police fighting knife crime should be exempt from race discrimination laws, Trevor Phillips says


    Will I get another gong? Search me!
  19. GarveyLives

    GarveyLives Well-Known Member

  20. sparkybird

    sparkybird ask the bird...

    I asked to be enlightened and got a face palm....
  21. sparkybird

    sparkybird ask the bird...

  22. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Starry Wisdom

    I can explain it to you but I cannot understand it for you
    Gramsci likes this.
  23. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    On a related note the Met have just been criticized for how they used database set up after 2011 riots.

    Keeping and sharing Information with local Councils.

    Blog: Information Commissioner’s investigation into the Metropolitan Police Service’s Gangs Matrix concludes with enforcement action

    The Information Commission is the public watchdog for data protection,

    Metropolitan police 'gangs matrix' breached data protection laws, investigation reveals

    The Mets Gang Matrix is the modern equivalent of Sus. Imo.

    The ICO are now going to start to look at how Councils have used the information. Also Housing Associations were given information by police. Why this was ok I don't understand.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2018
    FridgeMagnet and Pickman's model like this.
  24. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    Re previous post. I've remembered after 2011 riots there was same outrage and call for tough measures as now with support of draconian police stop and search.

    Then the great idea was to evict people from social housing and cut benefits from rioters.

    Hence the police database being shared wth Councils and housing associations.

    This knee jerk response to the 2011 riots disregarded civil liberty issues.

    Years later ICO and Amnesty deal with this.

    I dont entirely blame police for this.

    Its pandering to right wing public who cheer bringing it on.
    FridgeMagnet and editor like this.
  25. GarveyLives

    GarveyLives Well-Known Member

  26. editor

    editor Forked with electrons

    Will you be going to this?
  27. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Starry Wisdom

    I think you can blame the police for having a shitty gang matrix which in itself seems to have ridden roughshod over data protection
    Gramsci likes this.
  28. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    Someone alerted me to this report by Sian Berry the Green GLA member.

    Summarises the grim figures of cuts to non statutory youth services in local Councils. Youth centre closures and Youth workers made redundant.

    Whilst there has been calls for the police to do more the very services that can help young people develop are cut to the bone in London.

    Its quite short and readable.

    Unlike library cuts this loss of services for young people have been happening without much public awareness.

    The report contains the figures for financial cuts, closures and job losses.

    Also gives young peoples views.

    There is danger imo that a whole generation of London youth will grow up thinking no one really gives a shit about them.

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