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Alcoholism in the Family and Counsellors

Apparently I've betrayed her by involving my parents. Had no choice has she wasn't listening to me and her husband is rininging me constantly.

She's going on all about all the secrets she kept for me - drugs and ducking and diving mainly. Ah well, if she tells them, she tells them. Hopefully they can see that whatever I've done, I don't need help and I'm happy enough.

I'm starting to get angry with her now though and I know that won't help.
 
My advice: don't answer the phone and stay away from her. You are propping her up with your help and understanding. Hell, if I had someone to look after me and I could blame and point fingers and threaten what would compel me to stop drinking? Nothing. Your sister is a grown woman. It may sound harsh but you should leave her to get on with it and hopefully she will come to her senses. You may have a result by the end of the year if you're lucky.
 
Cheers.

I hope my comments here don't seem too unsympathetic. I've been completely understanding to her direct* and would never judge her, I just trying to understand if this is a normal tatic in these things.

*naturally - she's my sister and there's nothing that could stop me loving her

I'm starting to get angry with her now though and I know that won't help.

Sorry, no real advice to offer with regards to your sister, but regarding the above : I think that if your comments seem unsympathetic - or angry - that's entirely natural and you shouldn't feel bad. It must be incredibly frustrating for you to see what's going on and (probably) feel so helpless. No doubt you too need to let off some steam. Far better to let off steam here. :)

fwiw : if i were in your sister's shoes I'd hope my brother would want to help me the way you clearly want to help her.
 
psychodynamic counselling - freud and shit - seems to be all about blaming the family, especially ma and pa. If the subject themselves blames their childhood, then this form of counselling is hugely succesful in treating, specifically, alcoholism. Worth baring in mind....

This is bollocks.
 
My advice: don't answer the phone and stay away from her. You are propping her up with your help and understanding. Hell, if I had someone to look after me and I could blame and point fingers and threaten what would compel me to stop drinking? Nothing. Your sister is a grown woman. It may sound harsh but you should leave her to get on with it and hopefully she will come to her senses. You may have a result by the end of the year if you're lucky.

This.

You'll never help an alchie unless they wanna do it for themselves, and they can only do it for themselves.
 
Just had lots of abuse of her because 'you shouldn't have involved Mum and Dad'.

Well maybe if you grew the fuck up I wouldn't have to worry about the correct course of action. And I did tell her that. Sorry, I know your not meant to, but how much fucking self-pitying shit are you meant to listen to?:mad:
 
I would suggest you not listen to a second more. It's you who are getting upset over it. Your sister wont be. When I was drinking I would get on the lash and then basically bully someone who I knew could be affected by my words. I certainly wouldn't put up with someone like me now! Also, it sounds like your sister is drunk. If so she is not in her right mind and will remain out of her mind while she keeps drinking in the manner you have described.
 
I think upchuck's broadly right in that it sounds like you're going to have to break out of the rut of colluding with her drinking behaviours, and starting to put some distance between you and them.

But I'm not sure cutting off communication is the best way: it might be better to have some kind of "cracked record" rehearsed comment you can make when she starts on all this "After all I did for you..." schtick. Something like, just for example "I'm concerned about you and I am bothered about your drinking, and I don't want to carry on helping you escape the consequences of it. When you're ready to talk to me and not involve me in your own denials, I'll be happy to talk." Type thing, anyway.

By simply cutting her off, you may be encouraging a kind of martyr complex (lots of addicts have them) in her that won't help things in the long term, and may make it more tricky in the short term too as she starts "acting out" more and more to get you to behave the way she feels you always have, and should.
 
Just had lots of abuse of her because 'you shouldn't have involved Mum and Dad'.

Well maybe if you grew the fuck up I wouldn't have to worry about the correct course of action. And I did tell her that. Sorry, I know your not meant to, but how much fucking self-pitying shit are you meant to listen to?:mad:
This is your sister, yeah? Not your daughter.

IMO you need to just step out of the situation. You're acting like you're her mum. Maybe there are things she needs to hear, but she doesn't need to hear them from you. Just take a step back from the situation. Tell her you want her to get straight and sober and will support her along the way in doing that, but other than that I think at this point you should just butt out. Very few people will accept advice/chastisement from a sibling, especially if they seem to be taking a more parental role, which can be a destructive thing to do to the confidence and personality of a sibling, if their 'equal' is taking on a parental role - you could just be doing more damage.

How old are you all? Just wondering if you're all really young and not flown from the nest yet, because that's what comes across to me from the posts you have made - are you sure that you aren't all coddling her a bit too much? Has she ever been completely independent from the family? Have you? Just a thought.
 
How old are you all? Just wondering if you're all really young and not flown from the nest yet, because that's what comes across to me from the posts you have made - are you sure that you aren't all coddling her a bit too much? Has she ever been completely independent from the family? Have you? Just a thought.

Are you deliberately being condescending or what? :confused:
 
Are you deliberately being condescending or what? :confused:
No I wasn't being condescending or at least I thought I wasn't, not intentionally in any way :confused: Sorry if it came across like that, I just come from a very small family where if you have a problem you just get on and deal with it, if my brother confronted me about anything in my life I'd tell him to fuck off and his involvement wouldn't help in the slightest. I moved away from my parents when I was a teenager and I don't get the whole thing of being that involved in the life of your sibling, involving your parents in the issue, all that - probably says more about me than anything, but that's just the way I am and the way I view things. I certainly didn't mean to cause any offense.

But then since you're not the author of the thread, I don't owe you any explanation or apology anyway - if the author of the thread has any problems with my post then s/he can PM me for what might be a useful conversation given my personal background and experiences of dealing with alcohol abuse, and you can stop being the thread's guard dog.
 
But I'm not sure cutting off communication is the best way: it might be better to have some kind of "cracked record" rehearsed comment you can make when she starts on all this "After all I did for you..." schtick. Something like, just for example "I'm concerned about you and I am bothered about your drinking, and I don't want to carry on helping you escape the consequences of it. When you're ready to talk to me and not involve me in your own denials, I'll be happy to talk." Type thing, anyway.

Absolutely this. 'Letting go with love' is the phrase - don't hinder, don't help, but let it be known that you're still there for her. The very, very hardest part about having a alcoholic loved one is accepting your total, utter and complete powerlessness to make any bloody difference to them whatsoever.

Unless she wants to stop, nothing will stop her..not her parents, husband, children, vowing on her favourite gran's deathbead - and believe me, I speak from experience. It's so easy to find yourself colluding with the secrecy, providing a safety net, propping them up, baling them out, but what you end up doing is supporting them in staying sick rather than supporting their recovery. Me and my family did this, and although it came from the heart, we actually helped her stay sick for much longer than perhaps she would have done without us. Not what we intended, but if you prevent the crises from happening, they don't happen, and for some people, they need to.

No two people are the same, but the only time my sister really started to get well was when we withdrew the 24/7 supprt. We told her again and again that we loved her, but we couldn't be with her while she was behaving as she was. Even now, nearly two years on, if she relapses, we'll all be heartbroken, but it's her path to follow, and we'll let her follow it.

I'll be holding a good thought for you and your sister, Yelkclub. x
 
Don't reply. The have managed without you it seems. They will continue to manage. You need to live your own life. You are not a crutch.
 
Mate, I could seriously go on about this ALL day long - I have a sis who went from smack to booze and we ALL hankered after the smack days when that was happening. Booze was a fucking nightmare and she has had years of counsellors etc encouraging her to blame everyone but herself, including - most often and most infuriatingly - my saint of a mum. Obviously my sister just goes along to these sessions and spouts a LOT of bullshit from her uniquely slanted bullshitty history distorting fact fucking perspective too, so the whole process is pretty much worthless, I would say.

I put myself 100% at your disposal if you want to give me a shout, a call, have a beer rant or whatever cos this has been probably the biggest source of stress to me in my stress filled life so far.
 
I put myself 100% at your disposal if you want to give me a shout, a call, have a beer rant or whatever cos this has been probably the biggest source of stress to me in my stress filled life so far.

Cheers. I'll PM you. We're due a beer anyway. I won't waste it on this issue though!
 
Bollocks. My phone froze so I've been off air for two days. Voicemails from her husband do not bode well. :(

Yelkclub...rescuing the ex never helped did it? I'm not having a dig at you, I just want to point out a pattern in your own behaviour, which in at least one other case (massive case of the ex) was also to the detriment of your own well being. :)

There is a difference between offering someone limited support and rescuing them.
 
Yelkclub...rescuing the ex never helped did it? I'm not having a dig at you, I just want to point out a pattern in your own behaviour, which in at least one other case (massive case of the ex) was also to the detriment of your own well being. :)

There is a difference between offering someone limited support and rescuing them.

Dig on this - if I love someone there's no end to how far I'll go to help them but for reasons I don't want to get fully into on here (happy if you want to pm me or talk about in person) I understand there has to be a line because you have your own life to live.
 
Dig on this - if I love someone there's no end to how far I'll go to help them but for reasons I don't want to get fully into on here (happy if you want to pm me or talk about in person) I understand there has to be a line because you have your own life to live.


That's just it Ken...there sometimes needs to be an 'end' because rescuing folk is often to the detriment and unhappiness of self.

Yes there has to be a line.
 
Booze was a fucking nightmare and she has had years of counsellors etc encouraging her to blame everyone but herself,
Small observation here in defence of counsellors.

I often hear "my counsellor told me...", and I never used to think all that much of it until I became one. We actually very rarely "tell people to do..." (unless you're with a CBT therapist, but even then the directive stuff tends to be more about how to think than great life choices).

And it's interesting how often these alleged directive statements tend to come from people with - and I don't mean this in a particularly diminishing way - responsibility/reality avoidance behaviours (and addictions are a big part of that), it is uncomfortable to accept responsibility for a decision...so what better solution than to "give" it to others. You'll hear quotes like "Well, you told me to...", or "I was just doing what I was told..", and that's only one step to "my counsellor told me...". In practice, just to take your example of a counsellor apparently telling someone to blame it all on others - I know exactly where that will have come from: the client will have talked to the counsellor about her issues with alcohol, and described the major influences in her life, which perhaps are predominantly bad. The counsellor is going to hear that very much as how the client feels about them, even if they're a very inaccurate or biased representation of the facts. But a client might well be - and I think often is - tempted to assume from the counsellor's failure to criticise the inaccuracies that the counsellor approves of the viewpoint they're taking.

It happens two ways.

First, I'll say something to a client which prompts them to think of a solution, or something to try. What I often get back a week or two later is "Oh, I tried that thing you told me to try...". Now, I frequently have to rack my brains, because - although I do very occasionally offer a bit of advice - it's rare that I tell someone to go away and do X, for some quite specific and definite value of X. It just doesn't fit with our ethos: we're supposed to be empowering the client, not cutting his/her legs out from under her, and that's what "Why don't you do...?" is a no-no in the majority of situations.

Second, the client can have heard some thing completely different from what I've said. This probably isn't a venue for the intricacies of projective identification or Melanie Klein, but there are all kinds of reasons why we can sometimes hear what we want to hear, rather than what was said. Sometimes it can be interestingly productive: some clients tell themselves what they need to hear, then protect themselves from the consequences by having been told it by Uncle Bob/a man in the pub/the counsellor. It can be a bit tricky disentangling oneself from one of those if the client's convinced that you told them to do something that went spectacularly wrong - I usually do a bit of a pre-emptive strike if a client's a bit prone to that, and emphasise the we-don't-advise line.

And sometimes, I guess people know full well that their counsellor didn't tell them X, but that it's a convenient truth to justify (to themselves as much as any) what they're doing anyway.

There will be counsellors, especially newly-trained and still a bit evangelical ones who do slip up and give advice. That's unfortunate, and it is to be hoped that they'll learn. It's self-limiting, anyway: we quickly learn to make it really clear to clients that we're not in the business of telling them what to do. You can usually spot the signs long before it becomes a problem...if you're looking out for it, so I'd be very surprised if someone with addiction issues was reporting the situation entirely accurately in this case.
 
Fuck it. Just spoke to my brother-in-law and she's worse than ever. Another attempt to get her to accept help on the horizon:(
 
Sorry to hear it too...still, this might be a beginning...I hope. Holding a good thought for you all.
 
2.5 years after I started this thread, she's as bad as ever. Leaving her to it hasn't helped, trying to get her help hasn't helped, she just seems determined to drink every day to excess until she loses her job and her husband leaves.

:(
 
After years in denial my sister has finally admitted she has a drink problem. She went to a session for help yesterday and last night was the first time in 5years she didn't drink.

Havant read whole thread but thats dangerous.. after 5 years of daily drinking you need medical detox...or risk fitting, heart attacks, brain damage and dying.
 
2.5 years after I started this thread, she's as bad as ever. Leaving her to it hasn't helped, trying to get her help hasn't helped, she just seems determined to drink every day to excess until she loses her job and her husband leaves.

:(

You have my sympathies but sadly I have no advice.... it's fucking horrible watching someone destroy themselves with seemingly no regard to their apparent loved ones :(
 
2.5 years after I started this thread, she's as bad as ever. Leaving her to it hasn't helped, trying to get her help hasn't helped, she just seems determined to drink every day to excess until she loses her job and her husband leaves.

:(

Very sorry to hear that, it is an unfortunate fact, that the person has to want to help themselves.
 
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