al-Haram al-Sherif crisis escalates.

[nino_savatte]

All these rioters need to get a life and a fucking job.

You sound just like the auld Tory duffers of Hitchin, who told me the same thing when I was picketing Barclay's Bank over their business in apartheid era South Africa.

Meaningful work - eh?

 

[moono]

Lol.

I managed to divert another Barclays client just last week.

The cabinet on Sunday approved the continuation of the excavations near the Mugrabi Gate in the Old City of Jerusalem, a government official said, despite protests by Muslims in Israel and across the Arab world.

***

The cabinet agreed that the international condemnation of Israel over the issue would be fielded by the Foreign Ministry in Jerusalem.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/824325.html

 

[moono]

Nazareth - The Arab Knesset (Israeli parliament) member Jamal Zahalka has revealed that the Israeli government of premier Ehud Olmert had rejected recommendations tabled by more that 30 archeologists across the world to avoid harming the Magharba gate.

Olmert’s government also shrugged off the UNESCO extreme objection to the diggings, the MP added, explaining that the Israeli occupation government informed the international organization that it aims to install a bridge wide enough to allow IOF troops, tanks, and bulldozers access into the Mosque.

http://www.palestine-info.co.uk/am/publish/article_21396.shtml

Hey, without the Mosque they could have a helipad.

 

[mears]

Hey, without the Mosque they could have a helipad.

Maybe we are just more open in our views as Americans, or maybe you are ashamed of yours.

Do you believe Israel has a right to exist?

 

[mears]

Do you all wonder why he can't answer the question?

Or is it just me?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I think it's just you, I don't see that it's come from anywhere else in the thread.

The walkway is supposed to allow military access? That is something of a significant detail....

 

[moono]

mears;

Maybe we are just more open in our views as Americans, or maybe you are ashamed of yours.

Do you believe Israel has a right to exist?

If there is an intent to create a military access then your view, as an American, will have been proven flawed, won't it. Not that you'd accept that, even after promoting the 'just repairing a walkway' version of events.

Still, you are labouring under an administration which has adopted 'hypocrisy as policy' so you've a considerable amount of wiggle room.

It also eventuated that there's another motive;

Minister for Strategic Affairs Avigdor Lieberman (Yisrael Beitenu) said, "we must continue with the construction works at the Mugrabi Gate in the name of reason, otherwise Israeli sovereignty would be seriously compromised."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/824325.html

So, the fascist bastard sees it as an issue of sovereignty. Israel has no sovereignty in Jerusalem. It's occupied territory. What is he talking about, mears ?

mears;

Do you believe Israel has a right to exist?

Start a thread. This one doesn't need the diversion.

 

[mears]

mears;


If there is an intent to create a military access then your view, as an American, will have been proven flawed, won't it. Not that you'd accept that, even after promoting the 'just repairing a walkway' version of events.

Still, you are labouring under an administration which has adopted 'hypocrisy as policy' so you've a considerable amount of wiggle room.

It also eventuated that there's another motive;


So, the fascist bastard sees it as an issue of sovereignty. Israel has no sovereignty in Jerusalem. It's occupied territory. What is he talking about, mears ?

mears;


Start a thread. This one doesn't need the diversion.

That is fine, if I start a thread asking people if they believe Israel has a right to exist than you will answer the question?

 

[TomUS]

Hey, without the Mosque they could have a helipad.

You failed to mention that the Knesset member you quoted is an Israeli Palestinian Arab who:

primarily campaigns for the rights of Palestinians within Israel.

http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=68410

He also recently visited Assad in Syria.

MK Jamal Zahalka convenes with Syrian president in Damascus, believes Assad aspires for peace.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3303055,00.html

The assertion that Israel is building access to the mount for troops, tanks & buldozers doesn't make much sense to me. Israel can flood the area with troops anytime it wants without any special bridge. Even if the bridge is for this purpose, it seems unlikely that Israel would tell UNESCO.

 

[TomUS]

So, the fascist bastard sees it as an issue of sovereignty. Israel has no sovereignty in Jerusalem. It's occupied territory.

Of course it's an issue of sovereignty. Jerusalem is Israel's capital. They aren't going to let anyone dictate to them what construction can be done there.

 

[laptop]

Israel's capital is Tel Aviv, dumbnuts.

 

[Aldebaran]

Not the first time the Israelis deliberately and at carefully chosen moments stir up tensions by targettting Al-Aqsa.

It is claimed by a range of archeologists that earlier exavations by Israel (to prove" the site was formerly the location of the Temple, which as far as I am informed led to nothing substantial)already seriously weakened foundations of the Al-Aqsa compound.

So now it seems these arrogant fools want to make way for their army to enter the holy site? I wouldn't like to live the day these idiots venture to actually do this, let alone if by doing so also causing dammage.

The provocation they have in mind is clear and aimed at being provocative for the further future. The reason why is also clear enough.

salaam.

 

[TomUS]

Israel's capital is Tel Aviv, dumbnuts.

Wrongo. It's Jerusalem & has been since 1950 according to Israel.

 

[agricola]

Whatever the pros and cons of this particular debate, I note that the respect for religious buildings which is demanded by Palestinians did not stop Palestinian rioters firebombing two Greek Orthodox Churches, as well as an Anglican Church, after the Pope's speech about rationality and religion last October and the subsequent immense, and hypocritical, overreaction by so many in that part of the world.

 

[laptop]

Wrongo. It's Jerusalem & has been since 1950 according to Israel.

Even the US maintains its embassy in Tel Aviv and even the CIA reports that claim as what it is: a mere claim.

If the State of Israel announced that white was black, you'd presumably repaint your arse?

 

[slaar]

Wrongo. It's Jerusalem & has been since 1950 according to Israel.

That's not accepted by the international community:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem

Israel proclaimed Jerusalem as its capital in 1950 and all the branches of Israeli government (Presidential, Legislative, Judicial and Administrative) are seated in Jerusalem. In 1950, given that the city was divided between Israel and Jordan, this proclamation related only to western Jerusalem. Immediately after the Six Day War in 1967, Israeli legislation incorporated East Jerusalem into Israel, annexing it to the municipality of Jerusalem, and making it a de facto part of its capital. Israel enshrined the status of united Jerusalem, west and east, as its undivided capital, in Israel's 1980 Basic Law: Jerusalem, Capital of Israel. The non-binding United Nations Security Council Resolution 478 declared that this law was 'null and void and must be rescinded forthwith' and advised member states to withdraw their diplomatic representation from the city as a punitive measure, which most of the few countries with embassies in Jerusalem did, relocating their embassies to Tel Aviv.

Most United Nations member states already located their embassies in Tel Aviv prior to Resolution 478. Currently, only one UN member state – El Salvador – has its embassy located within the city limits of Jerusalem, although the embassies of Bolivia and Paraguay are in Mevaseret Zion, a suburb of Jerusalem. However, in August 2006, El Salvador stated the intention to relocate its embassy to Tel Aviv.[51]

Jerusalem is home to a number of key Israeli government buildings, including the Knesset, the Israeli Supreme Court and the houses of the President and Prime Minister. With the exception of the house of the premier, these buildings can be toured.

 

[TomUS]

Even the US maintains its embassy in Tel Aviv and even the CIA reports that claim as what it is: a mere claim.

If the State of Israel announced that white was black, you'd presumably repaint your arse?

Capital is in Tel Aviv eh? What Israeli governmental functions exist there that make it the capital? Can you list them? Go ahead. Try. If not, paint your arse Hamas green.

 

[moono]

So, the fascist Leiberman calls and his cybersoldiers root for sovereignty over Jerusalem.

All Israeli law over Jerusalem was recently reaffirmed null and void by the UN. Jerusalem is occupied territory.

 

[nino_savatte]

That is fine, if I start a thread asking people if they believe Israel has a right to exist than you will answer the question?

Why don't you start a thread that asks if the tooth fairy exists?

You live in a binarist world that is filled to bursting with simplistic analogy, where everything is reduced to a system of belief. The world isn't that simple.

 

[nino_savatte]

You failed to mention that the Knesset member you quoted is an Israeli Palestinian Arab who:

http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=68410

He also recently visited Assad in Syria.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3303055,00.html

The assertion that Israel is building access to the mount for troops, tanks & buldozers doesn't make much sense to me. Israel can flood the area with troops anytime it wants without any special bridge. Even if the bridge is for this purpose, it seems unlikely that Israel would tell UNESCO.

Ynet news, TomUS? Not exactly an impartial source - is it?

 

[TomUS]

Ynet news, TomUS? Not exactly an impartial source - is it?

I'd say it's as impartial as Palestine Info Center-The Voice of Palestine, that MOHO quoted. I didn't notice you calling that source into question.

Do you deny what's in the Ynet article?

 

[TomUS]

So, the fascist Leiberman calls and his cybersoldiers root for sovereignty over Jerusalem.

All Israeli law over Jerusalem was recently reaffirmed null and void by the UN. Jerusalem is occupied territory.

Are you saying that my post is a result of some command from Leiberman? I probably hate him more than you do.

"Occupied" or not, Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. If you had been there, it would have been obvious to you.

 

[nino_savatte]

I'd say it's as impartial as Palestine Info Center-The Voice of Palestine, that MOHO quoted. I didn't notice you calling that source into question.

Do you deny what's in the Ynet article?

Really? I think the Zionist position is altogether different to the Palestinian one. after all, who is being oppressed here? The language used in the Ynet article interesting:

Zahalka compares visit to enemy state to journalistic work outside of Israel

Then there's this item from the box on that page

Mazuz to investigate Arab MKs who went to Syria / Aviram Zino
MKs Bishara, Zahalka and Taha will be investigated for visiting enemy country without authorization. Many MKs appeal to attorney general regarding illegality of trip itself, MKs' statements to Syrian leaders

The constant "They're as bad as each other" argument is simply another way of putting one's head in the sand.

So one has to consider the audience for which this article was intended. It wasn't intended for Palestinians or, indeed, so-called neutrals.

 

[moono]

Tom US;

"Occupied" or not, Jerusalem is the capital of Israel.

No, it isn't. A lot of people might think it is , a lot of people might wish it was, but it's not. It's occupied territory.

International law over-rides the Israeli possession of the city. If it were invaded tomorrow and occupied by somebody else it would still be occupied territory.

Now, everybody is familiar with Israel's contempt for international law but that only makes other States more determined that Israel will never get away with flouting it.

 

[moono]

The mayor of Jerusalem has decided to temporarily suspend renovations near the revered al-Aqsa mosque compound in the city's Old Town.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...41CB283B58.htm


Gideon Schmerling, a Jerusalem Municipality spokesman, said: "[The decision] is due to the sensitivity of the plan and following meetings and discussions with representatives from eastern Jerusalem who requested to look over the plans and voice their opinions.

"Despite this decision, the rescue works, conducted by the Israel Antiquities Authority, scheduled to go on for several months, will still take place."

Nice attitude. 'The illegal work will continue'. Sounds like a Zionist State motto.

 

[TomUS]

Tom US;


No, it isn't. A lot of people might think it is , a lot of people might wish it was, but it's not. It's occupied territory.

International law over-rides the Israeli possession of the city. If it were invaded tomorrow and occupied by somebody else it would still be occupied territory.

Now, everybody is familiar with Israel's contempt for international law but that only makes other States more determined that Israel will never get away with flouting it.

I'd turn that around. A lot of people might think it's not, a lot of people might wish it wern't, but it is. It was captured from Jordan in a war of self defense against Arab countries that were intent on wiping out Israel.

 

[moono]

You must know, TomUS, that territory cannot be gained by means of warfare. It's illegal, old chap.

I suggest you familiarise yourself with an expert opinion on the legal issues. I'm not saying it's the definitive opinion, it hasn't been ruled upon, but at least it will bring you up to date on the resistance to the kind of wishful crap that you are advocating.

Won it in a card game, did they ? Lol.

http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/world/israelborders.php

When there is eventually a binding ruling, other than the binding Resolutions upon which D'Amato's opinion is based, the Zionists will simply have to vacate other peeps territory. Yes, and leave their swimming pools and barbeques behind them. Tough titty.

 

[TomUS]

Really? I think the Zionist position is altogether different to the Palestinian one. after all, who is being oppressed here?

Quoting a source that leans in favor of your position is legitimate but one that leans against it is not? This is a rule of debate I've never heard of.

The language used in the Ynet article interesting:
Quote:
Zahalka compares visit to enemy state to journalistic work outside of Israel

So Syria isn't an enemy state of Israel? I wasn't aware they had recognized Israel and signed a peace treaty.

So one has to consider the audience for which this article was intended. It wasn't intended for Palestinians or, indeed, so-called neutrals.

I can't see the relevance of the audience an article is intended for.

 

[TomUS]

You must know, TomUS, that territory cannot be gained by means of warfare. It's illegal, old chap.

Whether we like it or not, most of the borders in the world were established by warfare.

I suggest you familiarise yourself with an expert opinion on the legal issues. I'm not saying it's the definitive opinion, it hasn't been ruled upon, but at least it will bring you up to date on the resistance to the kind of wishful crap that you are advocating.

Won it in a card game, did they ? Lol.

Nope, in a war of self defense. Interesting article though.

When there is eventually a binding ruling, other than the binding Resolutions upon which D'Amato's opinion is based, the Zionists will simply have to vacate other peeps territory. Yes, and leave their swimming pools and barbeques behind them. Tough titty.

And the western wall too? Not in a million years. And BTW, there aren't many swimming pools there. Their standard of living isn't that high.

 

[Giles]

You must know, TomUS, that territory cannot be gained by means of warfare. It's illegal, old chap.

I suggest you familiarise yourself with an expert opinion on the legal issues. I'm not saying it's the definitive opinion, it hasn't been ruled upon, but at least it will bring you up to date on the resistance to the kind of wishful crap that you are advocating.

Won it in a card game, did they ? Lol.

http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/world/israelborders.php

When there is eventually a binding ruling, other than the binding Resolutions upon which D'Amato's opinion is based, the Zionists will simply have to vacate other peeps territory. Yes, and leave their swimming pools and barbeques behind them. Tough titty.

In international relations, strength and power are what counts, not rulings. It was ever thus.

Giles..